Charles Kennedy - 'not defecting to Labour'

[Tony]

Perhaps some people shouldnt read the red tops.

Is that the counter argument, some nonsense about tabloids and a rolly eyed smiley insinuating how everyone else must be a bit tic loike.

 

How flattering that Labour and their supporters (assuming you) think that of everyone else.

 

You'll no doubt thank God that none of us are apparently capable of reading government publications with statements that mention missile attacks and 45 minutes?

[Grandad.Malky]

I don't read any tabloid rags but that's beside the point, it wasn't the red tops that invented it was it? It was the Labour Government, was it not?

 

Was it?........

 

the 45-minute claim was mentioned only once in passing in the Commons

 

 

 

The Sun newspaper, Britain's biggest selling daily, has the headline: "Brits 45 mins from doom" about the threat to troops in Cyprus.

 

The Star newspaper has the headline "Mad Saddam ready to attack: 45 minutes from a chemical war.

[Grandad.Malky]

You'll no doubt thank God that none of us are apparently capable of reading government publications with statements that mention missile attacks and 45 minutes?

 

What no link , come on Tony you are slipping.

[mj.scuba]

What no link , come on Tony you are slipping.

 

Surely you don't need links to this? It's already know that the 45-minute claim was in the "Dodgy Dossier" of Sept 2002.

[Tony]

What no link , come on Tony you are slipping.

 

Dear oh dear, let's try Hansard shall we?

 

Tony Blair in Parliament 24/9/02

 

The report shows that Saddam has illegally retained at least 20 al-Hussein missiles, with a range of 650 km, capable of carrying the various warheads that he needs, and that he is also developing new ones.

 

I remind the House that there are more than 3,000 British service men and women in Cyprus, 200 in Turkey, 300 in Saudi Arabia and 400 in Kuwait, all of whom are in range of the missiles that Saddam possesses today.

The Government dossier confirms that Iraq is self-sufficient in biological weapons and that the Iraqi military is ready to deploy those, and chemical weapons, at some 45 minutes' notice. We also know that three years ago Iraq attempted to get enriched uranium from Serbia in the dying days of the Milosevic regime—evidenced and documented. Today, the report says that Iraq has sought to acquire uranium from Africa and is trying to turn it into weapons-grade material.

 

I am aware, of course, that people will have to take elements of this on the good faith of our intelligence services, but this is what they are telling me, the British Prime Minister, and my senior colleagues. The intelligence picture that they paint is one accumulated over the last four years. It is extensive, detailed and authoritative. It concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population, and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.

 

 

 

The Conservative response relied entirely on what has become known as the 'Dodgy September Dossier'.

 

Iain Duncan Smith

The Government dossier confirms that Iraq is self-sufficient in biological weapons and that the Iraqi military is ready to deploy those, and chemical weapons, at some 45 minutes' notice.

 

Blair's foreword in the Dodgy Dossier contains this line

Saddam has used chemical weapons, not only against an enemy state, but against his own people. Intelligence reports make clear that he sees the building up of his WMD capability, and the belief overseas that he would use these weapons, as vital to his strategic interests, and in particular his goal of regional domination. And the document discloses that his military planning allows for some of the WMD to be ready within 45 minutes of an order to use them.

 

I am quite clear that Saddam will go to extreme lengths, indeed has already done so, to hide these weapons and avoid giving them up.

 

So extreme were his lengths at hiding them that Iraq had none, as evidenced by the UN inspectors. In fact the information used in the report seems to have come from a taxi driver recalling an overheard conversation with somebody in the back of his cab years earlier. Even MI6 didn't think much of the evidence, telling Blair that it was 'verifiably inaccurate'.

[Wildcat]

How many labour mps rebelled against the vote to in to war? I seem to recall a significant opposition from labour back benches

[Tony]

There were from all parties, but I believe that was was down to ideology rather than any position of knowledge or experience.

[Wildcat]

Dear oh dear, let's try Hansard shall we?

 

Tony Blair in Parliament 24/9/02

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Conservative response relied entirely on what has become known as the 'Dodgy September Dossier'.

 

Iain Duncan Smith

 

 

Blair's foreword in the Dodgy Dossier contains this line

 

 

So extreme were his lengths at hiding them that Iraq had none, as evidenced by the UN inspectors. In fact the information used in the report seems to have come from a taxi driver recalling an overheard conversation with somebody in the back of his cab years earlier. Even MI6 didn't think much of the evidence, telling Blair that it was 'verifiably inaccurate'.

and yet the tories supported it

[mj.scuba]

and yet the tories supported it

 

How were they to know it was not intelligence led but a politically contrived fiction?

We should be able to believe the PM when it comes to stuff like this.

[Tony]

How were they to know it was not intelligence led but a politically contrived fiction?

We should be able to believe the PM when it comes to stuff like this.

 

Quite.

 

 

 

Interestingly (and almost on topic) Charles Kennedy's response on the day was quite fortelling

 

What we must be clear about—the Prime Minister touched on this at some length—is the notion of regime change, which is ill-defined, and remains so today. It would set a dangerous precedent in international affairs. We have to be clear about the possible consequences of a regime change. What will the reaction be in the rest of the Arab world? If Saddam's regime falls, what kind of government system is envisaged as a replacement?