A sensible discussion about current drugs policy.

[Digsy]

So why if as you imply the only difference is that you can buy one over the counter and the other requires robbery because it is so expensive yet has the same effect don't they stick to cigarettes?

 

Heroin and cigarettes don't have the same effect though.

You see smokers walking the street with a fag in their hand, it does not effect the body as excessively as heroin.

You can't tell the effects of nicotine from the outside as much as you can tell the effects of heroin.

It's like comparing alcohol and cigarettes.

 

I have never taken heroin and wouldn't if offered it for free, but you can clearly see the difference of a smoker and heroin addict.

[chem1st]

Surely with all these sellers

 

Drug dealers.

Entrepreneurs (that's a new one).

Drug users.

 

logic says that the price should come down with all this competition to supply.

 

Illegal goods do attract a higher price, that's one of the reasons why people need to steal to fund an addiction. Legal goods are pretty cheap and can be purchased easily you see.

[Bassman62]

Heroin and cigarettes don't have the same effect though.

You see smokers walking the street with a fag in their hand, it does not effect the body as excessively as heroin.

You can't tell the effects of nicotine from the outside as much as you can tell the effects of heroin.

It's like comparing alcohol and cigarettes.

 

I have never taken heroin and wouldn't if offered it for free, but you can clearly see the difference of a smoker and heroin addict.

And now we reach the hub of the problem on this forum.

I asked a question about the difference between the effects of two different items and the answer was

Yes, people don't generally have to rob people to buy cigarettes.

But you don't agree with 'ash' so why didn't you say so?

[hard2miss]

When was it last legal?

goto the link.

 

That aside, thisis very interesting, jack straw looked into treating addicts of heroin and this statistic stands well out for me.

 

The cost of a year's diamorphine treatment for an addict is about £15,000, although this includes administering and supervising the injections.

So for 15 grand a year a user could be 'treated', so that means that is someone was buying it themselves the cost would be around that ball park.

 

Anyone know how much an addict of cigs spends a year ?

 

Anyone know how much it costs the tax payer in prison costs after the crime they do with it being illegal ?

 

Or how much money the NHS already spends treating people who OD or us mucky contaminated gear ?

 

Im sure gaining a revenue from it and taking it out of criminal control can only serve to better the country, not make it worse.

[Bassman62]

don't argue too hard, don't want it closing!, I've got your last 2 posts to answer Bassman. But just last minute decision to go to pub.

Don't blame you, I'm off to the pub too.

[Digsy]

But you don't agree with 'ash' so why didn't you say so?

 

I don't agree with him on what, you've lost me there.

I can agree that most people generally don't steal to fund cigarette habits, some do though, when people rob petrol stations etc, you normally hear that they went for the fags and money, and the fags are kept behind a counter to prevent theft, some also secure the shelves with shutters to deter an out of hours break in. That is just the way of some people, they will steal no matter what the addiction, some are even addicted to stealing itself.

 

I don't have any thoughts on legalising heroin, crack, cocaine etc, I'm neither for nor against, quite happy to sit on the fence and watch people squabble about it.

[*_ash_*]

Don't blame you, I'm off to the pub too.

 

 

we had lock in so gonna have to be tomorrow to amswer as far too p!$$ed now

[MrMondo]

It shouldn't cost a penny to keep criminals in jail, hard labour to pay for their keep should be the order of the day, how many police officers will go if drugs are legalised the answer is none because they will be free to combat other crimes

 

 

 

 

The addict chooses to rob to feed their habit, programmes are already their to help them kick it.

I'm sick ofpeople on here making excuses for druggies even to the point of claiming that it is the normal thing to do.

There are five graduation photos on my living room wall, none of my children have taken illegal drugs especialy not at unversity where some posters on her imply that it was the normal thing to do, (if you can believe these posters).

People choose to be on the habit, what I'm asking is how can they get on the habit if and when these drugs are legalised.

 

Universities are rife with drugs! Believe it!

 

At the end of the day, the war on drugs is over! The government has lost, big time! The buisness of drugs is a multi billion, world wide operation. One that some countries governments rely on (Afganistan for example).

 

People will always take drugs, the trade will never stop...ever!

 

Would you rather things carry on as they are or would you rather all the crime, deth & poverty taken out of the equation?

[Digsy]

Anyone know how much it costs the tax payer in prison costs after the crime they do with it being illegal ?

 

I aint going into too much research here, but if we use the 2008 figures as ball park.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/28/justice.prisonsandprobation

 

£40k per annum per prisoner minimum.

[spindrift]

Dr Peter Carter, of the Royal College of Nursing, has spoken approvingly of heroin prescribing on the NHS. This sounds shocking, perhaps. All I can do is gently point out that every trial ever done on diamorphine prescribing has shown it to work well in restoring previously hopeless addicts to being effective members of society. Their health improves dramatically. They give up crime. They get jobs.

 

Besides, many opioid addicts can’t stand methadone, the current preferred treatment. It rots teeth and can be generally burdensome. If you give addicts free heroin you remove at a stroke their principle motive for committing theft or going into prostitution.

 

It has shown excellent outcomes in trials in Europe and recently in Canada , though the Americans are adamantly opposed to heroin and will not even use it in medicine. Very often what happens in practice is that addicts get bored of prescribed medication and give up altogether on a prescription.

 

So maybe we should think the unthinkable. At the very least policy must be grounded in evidence, not in prejudice. Substitute prescribing is accepted in tobacco addiction. Why not heroin?

 

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewmcfbrown/100036572/dont-sniff-at-calls-to-prescribe-heroin-on-the-nhs/

 

A close relative of mine has been a heroin addict for 15 years. He smokes it and has never injected. He is described as a functioning addict. He earns a living, has never been in trouble with the police and manages to control his addiction to the extent that, on meeting him, a stranger would never know that he was a heroin addict. He looks healthy and has a pleasant personality.

 

I have held him in my arms while he has wept in anger and frustration at his own weakness in submitting to this drug. He has twice failed re-hab. Whilst he has never descended into crime he will never rise to know the normal happiness we all take for granted in having a loving partner and family. Who would be willing to take on a smackhead?

 

He became addicted at age 15....a local dope supplier offered him a 'bag of brown' for the same price as a cut of resin. A childish decision which he is now paying for with his whole adult life.

 

Why should he not qualify for NHS help?

 

In my view, his addiction is no different to an unhappy, middle aged housewife addicted to Prozac and nobody would protest at NHS help for that.