A sensible discussion about current drugs policy.

[studentbob]

I don't think that you post is the hub of the issue, so, you've pointed out that drugs in pure form are physicly harmless.

So why do people take drugs and what effect do they have on users, can we have the answers in clear language and not PC jargon ie 'recreational'.

A list of drugs and their effect would appreciated.

 

Exactly. Not everyone who takes drugs is a heroin addict.

[spindrift]

I agree with your arguments regarding heroin addicts. It's common sense really. But what about all the other illegal drugs? What if I wanted some lsd for the bank holiday weekender?

Where would I get it from?

 

You could pick similar psychoactive substances up from many fields or hedgerows in Yorkshire.

 

There is recent research that indicates a number of ailments can be treated or alleviated with hallucinatory drugs.

[tee jay]

Economics, as well as medicine, supports decriminalisation.

 

Why do criminals supply drugs?

 

To make money.

 

It's in their interests to create as many addicts as they can, so they "push" drugs onto non-addicts as well.

 

The government tries to stamp out the drugs trade by making it illegal and arresting criminals, but the more success law enforcement has, the higher the street price of the drugs goes. This means existing addicts have to commit more crime to get the money to feed their habit. It also makes it more attractive for criminals to be in the "business".

 

So it's better to decriminalise, and to supply registered addicts with drugs for free on the NHS. These drugs are very cheap when legally sourced, so this would cost a lot less than the crime it prevents and the law enforcement that becomes unnecessary. There will no longer be any profit to be made by criminals, so the entire illegal trade in the UK will wither away. If the whole world followed suit, terrorist organisations that fund themselves by growing these drugs would also be deprived of the money that they use to buy arms.

 

Everybody wins, except for drugs gangs and the Taliban. What is there to lose?

 

Take grass.

 

Say a million people buy a henry a week at £25. That's £25 million a week that could be taxed, plus the costs of the cops raiding South Vietnamese gangs who rent houses and install cannabis farms. Plus the cost to the courts to process the men of straw who operate them, the cost to the prisons, the landlords etc.

 

The government are turning their back on massive fiscal benefits and causing harm and criminality at the same time.

 

The whole thing's a dog's breakfast.

this would not solve a thing,when the American's banned alcohol result lots off crime..then when they made it legal just the same lot off crime by people who are drunk.It would be just same with people high on drugs doin crime..?

[chem1st]

I'm pretty sure the drug laws aren't working.

 

I've broken the law wrt cannabis every day for the past decade now. I haven't hurt anybody, although I've been robbed a couple of times by the police, it makes me lose respect for the police, and I don't trust them. They score a little higher than violent thieves IMO, and if I saw a violent thieve being beaten up in the street, I'd turn a blind eye.

 

Likewise I wouldn't want to report a police officer getting beat up, not because I'm against them (a lot of what they do is good, and I don't really want to see anyone get beaten up - although some corporal punishment for violent crimes and forced compensation would be nice), but I'd be worried they'd target me, for having a joint in my pocket.

 

Because I use cannabis, they become my enemy, and if it weren't for the drug laws, they'd be my ally!

[Bassman62]

this would not solve a thing,when the American's banned alcohol result lots off crime..then when they made it legal just the same lot off crime by people who are drunk.It would be just same with people high on drugs doin crime..?

I got slagged of on a similar thread for saying much the same.

The trouble is you'll only draw an offensive response when you raise valid points.

[mort]

Please note - keep this on topic and free from personal abuse, name calling and bickering.

[spindrift]

I'm pretty sure the drug laws aren't working.

 

I've broken the law wrt cannabis every day for the past decade now. I haven't hurt anybody, although I've been robbed a couple of times by the police, it makes me lose respect for the police, and I don't trust them. They score a little higher than violent thieves IMO, and if I saw a violent thieve being beaten up in the street, I'd turn a blind eye.

 

Likewise I wouldn't want to report a police officer getting beat up, not because I'm against them (a lot of what they do is good, and I don't really want to see anyone get beaten up - although some corporal punishment for violent crimes and forced compensation would be nice), but I'd be worried they'd target me, for having a joint in my pocket.

 

Because I use cannabis, they become my enemy, and if it weren't for the drug laws, they'd be my ally!

 

 

Sniffer dogs at stations detect blims people may be carrying

 

The blim's confiscated, and the cops tick a box marked "Solved Crime".

 

The whole thing's a box-ticking exercise with zero impact on drug usage or anything else.

[spindrift]

Portugal has decriminalised everything and has had no ill-effects.

 

The Netherlands is well-known.

 

In Belgium you can grow your own weed.

 

This year the Czech republic has passed a law which sets a limit for possession of a number of drugs below which they are decriminalised, above possession is a misdemeanour.

 

Mexico has recently decriminalised canabis.

 

Several states in America have decriminalised cannabis.

 

Every country that prescribed heroin has had crime rates slashed, deaths reduced, costs dramatically reduced.

 

One of the UK's leading doctors said today the government should consider decriminalising drugs because the blanket ban has failed to cut crime or improve health.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/aug/16/drugs-decriminalisation-doctor-ian-gilmore

 

 

I think David Nutt (the prof Alan Johnson fired for telling the truth about drugs) is right. There is no logical basis for the war on drugs. It can only be that those in power can't stand the thought of people having a good time.

 

And if you're worried or pleased that the BBC appears to no longer be toeing the party line on drugs, tonight's EastEnders was the usual total rubbish about drugs and how they're "poison" and people who take them are scum.

 

This from a soap set in a pub where everyone goes every lunchtime!

[taxman]

I'm a prejudiced Libertarian. As long as nice, middle class people are taking drugs in the comfort of their own home or at a picnic then I don't mind. Track suit beclad chavs smoking dope on street corners is another matter.

[spindrift]

this would not solve a thing,when the American's banned alcohol result lots off crime..then when they made it legal just the same lot off crime by people who are drunk.It would be just same with people high on drugs doin crime..?

 

If you are seriously suggesting prohibition in America had no impact on crime I suggest you research The Mafia.

 

Prohibition is a gift to organised crime, it places a lucrative trade in their hands.

 

And you are ignoring all the published evidence that prescription reduces crime, in Liverpool acquisitive crime dropped by 95%.