The Pope's Visit

[Vague_Boy]

The Victorians had the right way, but that is looked down on now, and rightly so in countries like India.

That is colonisation.

 

The "white man's burden" eh?

 

Trouble is, people tend to get a tad miffed if someone takes over their country by force (bloody excitable foreigners eh?) and..., I dunno..., I tend to think that the people of a country should, y'know, be the one's to decide how their country is run.

 

Other indigenous people who might take exception to the "benefits" of colonization.

 

American native indians

Aztecs

Mayans

Mexicans

 

Colonists were there to exploit, not develop

The Spanish (and Portuguese) colonists who arrived in the wake of the conquistadores wanted to follow in their footsteps. They did not come to build, farm or ranch, and in fact farming was considered a very lowly profession among the colonists. These men therefore harshly exploited native labor, often without thinking about the long-term. This attitude severely stunted the economic and cultural growth of the region. Traces of this attitude are still found in Latin America, such as the Brazilian celebration of malandragem, a way of life of petty crime and swindling.

 

LINK

[Smithster]

The "white man's burden" eh?

 

Trouble is, people tend to get a tad miffed if someone takes over their country by force (bloody excitable foreigners eh?) and..., I dunno..., I tend to think that the people of a country should, y'know, be the one's to decide how their country is run.

 

Other indigenous people who might take exception to the "benefits" of colonization.

 

American native indians

Aztecs

Mayans

Mexicans

 

 

 

LINK

 

Interesting that you would bring all of this up, seeing as the conquest of South America by the Spanish in the 16th century was encouraged and endorsed by none other than...

 

 

Yep, you guessed it...

 

 

 

The Pope!

[pattricia]

Being a lapsed Catholic I left the church due to their ridiculous stance on Birth Control and the use of condomsto stop the spread of sexual diseases.

[I1L2T3]

What a bizarre day yesterday was. Pope lands in Scotland and the head of the church of Scotland fails to turn up as planned. The government sends an atheist (Cleggy) to meet the pope after the pope's cheif aide had warned about aggressive atheism in the UK. The pope then delivers a warning about agressive secularism in the UK completely failing to recognise that three of the countries in the UK (Scotland, N.Ireland, Wales) have no established church and haven't done for decades. And to compound it he delivers the speech in one of the secular countries of the UK.

[mj.scuba]

Well the visit seems to have gone well. That will annoy the atheists.

[Smithster]

Well the visit seems to have gone well. That will annoy the atheists.

 

Not really.

 

As far as I can tell, some old cult leader in a stupid outfit came over here and slagged off millions of people who do not agree with his views. I don't imagine there will be a sharp rise in Catholic converts in the wake of his visit, so by which measure are you claiming that the visit went well?

[spindrift]

Not really.

 

As far as I can tell, some old cult leader in a stupid outfit came over here and slagged off millions of people who do not agree with his views. I don't imagine there will be a sharp rise in Catholic converts in the wake of his visit, so by which measure are you claiming that the visit went well?

 

 

Nobody was slagged off, don't be daft.

 

Saying the nazis were aggressive secularists is not really the same as saying atheists are all nazis.

 

 

As much as you would enjoy it if the Pope said something as absurd as "all atheists are clearly Nazis", it seems blindingly clear to me that he isn't calling atheists Nazis at all, but rather calling Nazis atheist (atheist extremists, to be specific). This is arguably not correct, as people have pointed out, but certainly not the vile insult to atheists everywhere that many otherwise lucid people seem to be making it out to be.

 

The pope hasn't come here on a mission to convert you, he's come to see his followers, why not let him get on with it?

 

The devout can cherish their memories of his trip.

 

The rest of us can forget it ever happened.

 

Nothing will have changed.

 

And for those who think the Pope deserves a life of punishment, they can console themselves with the thought that he had to hear Susan Boyle sing, and spend four days with Chris Patten.

[flamingjimmy]

Nobody was slagged off, don't be daft.

 

Saying the nazis were aggressive secularists is not really the same as saying atheists are all nazis.

 

 

As much as you would enjoy it if the Pope said something as absurd as "all atheists are clearly Nazis", it seems blindingly clear to me that he isn't calling atheists Nazis at all, but rather calling Nazis atheist (atheist extremists, to be specific). This is arguably not correct, as people have pointed out, but certainly not the vile insult to atheists everywhere that many otherwise lucid people seem to be making it out to be.

 

Imagine if the Pope had made the exact same speech except replace 'secular' with 'Islamic' and 'atheist' with 'Muslim'.

 

You and half of this forum would be on a 100 page long thread by now ripping into him.

 

Of course he was insulting atheists. He quite clearly heavily implied that it was atheism that led to what Hitler did, and not just that the Nazis were atheists (which in any case is a lie).

 

The double standards when it comes to atheism and the religious on display again, and from you! You're supposed to be a liberal

[six45ive]

He looked like he was very happy to leave as he got on the plane.

[HotPhil]

Mod note: Please try to keep to the topic. Other threads can be used for the discussion of matters not relating to the recent visit, but please try to remain civil and avoid comments that may cause offence.