The Pope's Visit

[flamingjimmy]

The anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust did not spring from Christian sources, but from apostasy. It wasn’t that the Church and Nazism were aligned against the Jews, but that Nazism was aligned against both Judaism and Christianity. The frequently ignored Christian victims of the gas ovens attest to this fact. As “We Remember” puts it,

Untrue. Christians were not systematically persecuted in Nazi Germany. There were plenty of Christian victims of the Nazis, but their Christianity was incidental, not the motivation.

 

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0031.html

I'm sure that site won't be biased at all:rolleyes:

[plekhanov]

Originally Posted by plekhanov

How is it a "smear" to falsely describe genocidal maniacs as atheists?

 

he didn't.

 

Why are you so angry about stuff he didn't say?

 

He said:

 

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society,"

 

BBC News - Row after Pope's remarks on atheism and Nazis

 

 

The Pope, as head of the church, is saying the nazis were Godless.

 

I am more than happy to stand corrected here, but all I can see is that the pope is saying Nazi action can be classed as atheist extremism.

In what conceivable way can "Nazi action can be classed as atheist extremism"?

 

The Holy Father is absolutely right: godlessness is the heart of Nazism. When Germans rejected their Christian roots, they reverted to racist paganism.

So Martin Luther was a pagan as well was he?

 

Were all those Catholics throughout the centuries who denounced Jews as "Christ killers", subjected them to pogroms, tortured conversos... pagans?

 

Christianity is all too compatible with racism and anti-semitism (both in it's pre-racist and racist forms) as the Nazis and other groups demonstrate.

[sccsux]

Isn't this just trolling now?

 

Just ignore the antagonistic twit.

 

It's easier as he'll only report you and get half the thread deleted, then go in the same tangents that lead to his initial complaint:loopy:.

[spindrift]

Untrue. Christians were not systematically persecuted in Nazi Germany. :

 

 

The 10,000 Jehova's Witnesses sent to the camps would dispute that.

[flamingjimmy]

The 10,000 Jehova's Witnesses sent to the camps would dispute that.

 

That is most dishonest of you.

 

Jehovahs Witnesses are one specific small sect of Christianity, and yes, they were persecuted extremely harshly.

 

However the other x million Christians in Germany were not systematically persecuted in the same manner as the JWs and the Jews (and gypsies, gays etc.) were. That is simply not true at all.

[spindrift]

In what conceivable way can "Nazi action can be classed as atheist extremism"?

 

 

 

 

The nazis were Godless and extreme. This is not an insult to atheists any more than I would feel insulted if someone claimed, with justification, that the nazis were Christians.

[plekhanov]

very good indeed:

 

One study is a case in point. In his research, Edward Green of the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies looked at Uganda’s ABC method (ABC as in Abstinence; Be faithful; Condom), which was introduced in 1986. His findings indicated that infection rates in that country dropped from 21 per cent to 6 per cent since 1991. Green, who once was a supporter of safe sex and condom use, is now in favour of abstinence and fidelity within couples.

 

Many studies, including some by the United Nations, show that nations with highest condom use also have higher HIV-AIDS infection rates.

 

Norman Hears, a family physician and epidemiologist at the University of California, San Francisco, said that “Condom promotion in Africa has been a disaster”.

 

And just to measure the danger of Catholic influence, all one has to look is the Philippines, 85 per cent Catholic, were HIV prevalence is a mere 0.01 per cent.

 

Even the New York Times, which recently attacked the Pope for his “dangerous” words, had to admit that traditional morality, based on abstinence and fidelity, defeated AIDS in the Philippines. In a 20 April 2003 article it said that in the Philippines,

 

 

 

“a very low rate of condom use and a very low rate of HIV infection seem to be going hand in hand. AIDS-prevention efforts often focus on condoms, but they are not widely available here—and are mostly shunned—in this conservative Roman Catholic country.”

 

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=14772

It is just surreal that you are attempting to cite the relative success of a program of which condoms and "be careful" are a foundational part to try to argue that the Catholic Church's abstinence only approach is viable.

 

Besides where in your quoted text does it show that the success rate of people remaining abstinent is above 90%?

[sccsux]

I'm sure that site won't be biased at all:rolleyes:

 

The registrant is J Fraser Field (Google his name (in quotes)).

[spindrift]

That is most dishonest of you.

 

Jehovahs Witnesses are one specific small sect of Christianity, and yes, they were persecuted extremely harshly.

 

However the other x million Christians in Germany were not systematically persecuted in the same manner as the JWs and the Jews (and gypsies, gays etc.) were.

 

 

I don't think this proves very much either way. Hitler was at best ambivalent about Christianity, there was northing to gain by persecuting German Christians in the same was as the Polish catholic church was decimated. The attack on the church was just another way of dismantling the state in conquered countries.

[flamingjimmy]

The nazis were Godless

#

 

"What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator."

 

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

 

Hitlers racism had religious roots. It's right there in black and white straight from the horse's mouth.