The Pope's Visit

[spindrift]

Are you serious? You're going to be that much of a hypocrite?

 

Allow me to quote from this guy on sheffield forum, called Spindrift, from earlier today, no less. One of the only things you've said today that I agreed with.

 

 

 

You are a hypocrite, and a lot less intelligent than I thought. What, did you forget that you'd written this or something?

 

No I'm saying that earlier today you used the quote "Christianity is an invention of sick brains" to try and prove that Hitler was an atheist.

 

You dishonestly cut out the second part of the quote which is as follows:

 

"one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery"

 

Even the sources that you used agree that Hitler was an atheist. Here's another couple of quotes from 'Table talk'

 

"We don't want to educate anyone in atheism."

 

"An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal)"

 

So as you can see, even if the source you used wasn't discredited, it still would not show that Hitler was an athiest.

 

 

So you agree it's pointless ascribing to Hitler a Christian ethos?

 

Which is what you've been doing for twelve pages.

[flamingjimmy]

I've asked you twice what your points are and what you think I've ignored, you respond with more abuse.

 

Where exactly are these questions?

 

Also, it's obvious what my points are, they're the huge chunks of text that you highlight then delete every time you make a response to me.

[flamingjimmy]

So you agree it's pointless ascribing to Hitler a Christian ethos?

 

Which is what you've been doing for twelve pages.

 

Fantastic, I can do an example, here you have responded to a large post of mine which contained several points.

 

1. That you judge atheists by different standards to how you judge religious people.

 

2. reiterating your point that just because someone bad is an x, that does not mean that all x's are bad.

 

3. That you dishonestly edited the quote you were using earlier.

 

4. Repeating my earlier point that the source you used has been discredited anyway.

 

and 5. Gave a couple more quotes from the same source to show that, even if the source hadn't already been discredited, you would be wrong anyway.

 

You completely ignored every single point except for number 2.

Now I really am going out to do some heavy sinning.

[plekhanov]

Complete rubbish, and stop with the personal abuse, why are atheists so abusive?

Pointing out that you are a liar and a plagiarist is descriptive not insulting.

 

Your behaviour is typical of a creed that killed more people in the last 100 years than the church managed in the previous 19 centuries.

What "creed" would this be then?

 

I'm talking about your intolerance,

Right so you're here arguing on behalf of a organisation which campaigns worldwide for discrination against homosexuals, women... an orginisation which still maintains a list of books it wants banned and accuse me of "intolerance"

 

your shrill hysteria and your blinkered worldview and the abuse you heap on those who disagree with you.

 

You're a very poor example of a godless person, do you shriek and yell everytime you hear an opinion you disagree with?

 

 

Prayer is a form of meditation, I suggest you try it and stop trying to howl down dissent.

It's just bizzare that you feel in a position to suggest anyone try meditation when you've just responded to a substantive post which rebutted your arguments and pointed out with clear evidence that you are a plagarist with nothing but personal abuse.

[sccsux]

Hitler took the view that man is God, exactly what atheists say.

 

You're demented.

 

Which atheists are these then? 'cause I'm an atheist, and have never thought (let alone stated) such utter drivel.

 

You insist Christians are responsible for Hitler, against all the evidence.

 

Are you really as dim as to believe that?

 

What is being said, is that Hitler was a christian, not that chritians are responsible for him. Or can you simply not read?

[metaphoria]

I thought for several reasons the pope's visit was a suprising success.

 

A couple of reasons are that: he commented on matters of criticism, and seemingly more supporters turned up to see him than naysayers.

 

Addy-Hitler was surely something else.

[plekhanov]

Hitler took the view that man is God, exactly what atheists say.

You're demented.:loony:

 

Which atheists are these then? 'cause I'm an atheist, and have never thought (let alone stated) such utter drivel.

Not only do atheists not say that* but Hitler didn't take that view either.

 

As has been demonstrated several times in this threat Hitler believed that humans and the universe we inhabit were created by single god. Now you can quibble about whether or not that god was the Christian one but Hitler clearly did not take "the view that man is God" he believed that a magical super being that created man and the universe is god. Which is not a belief atheists can possibly hold.

 

 

*infact you could argue that anyone who did say that would be definition not be an atheist, as atheists by definition don't believe in god/s.

[cressida]

I thought for several reasons the pope's visit was a suprising success.

 

A couple of reasons are that: he commented on matters of criticism, and seemingly more supporters turned up to see him than naysayers.

 

 

I think it was more successful than people thought it would be, however someone pointed out that fewer seats were sold (70,000 instead of 100,000)

[metaphoria]

I think it was more successful than people thought it would be, however someone pointed out that fewer seats were sold (70,000 instead of 100,000)

 

Statistics and numbers well considered...I was thinking more in terms of enthusiasm, or lack of.

[donkey]

The main two messages of the Pope's visit were based on deception. He cried crocodile tears for the victims of his church's numerous sexual predators, yet there is overwhelming evidence that he knew about a lot of this abuse and furthermore was in a position to do something about it. Instead, he chose to try and hush it up, even to the extent of allowing some of the priests to remain in positions where they would be able to continue abusing children.

 

Secondly, he used a trick which Goebbels himself expounded as a central plank of the nazi propaganda machine - the big lie. He clearly wanted to spread the fallacy that atheism was the driving force behind fascist ideology, and therefore tarnish all atheists as being potential nazis. This is black propaganda at it's worst. The irony is that there is plenty of evidence which indicates there was strong support for fascist ideology among top bishops and cardinals, particularly in Franco's Spain. It all makes me wonder was Ratzinger really as unwilling a participant in the Hitler youth as he says he was. His skill at using deception to scapegoat his ideological opponents for the world's ills, plus his arch conservatism would certainly not have been out of place in that organisation.