Cant find Osama, lets screw the Irish again.

[shaunfl]

We'll have to agree to differ about albertross's view of the IRA.

 

I'm afraid that no matter how knowledgeable I might have been about Irish history, I still wouldn't have been able to understand how that justified the IRA in killing innocent people and terrorising thousands.

 

Understanding their motives would not have made me any happier about the fact that the place where I worked kept being evacuated because of bomb threats, or that everybody automatically seemed to check for any suspicious packages when out or shopping, or the expression on my fireman neighbour's face when he got back from dealing with the aftermath of the pub bombings.

 

I simply cannot condone terrorist action - whoever is responsible for it or whatever their reasons.

 

I imagine the Irish felt very much the same towards the British whilst they exported food from Eire during the potato famine. Then in the 1900s the Black and Tans murdered at will, children and women at home.. not even in the boozer !!

[Guest]

Terrorists, whether fenian or islamic, should be killed imediately once identified.

 

End of chat.

 

We have no need to parlay with the mohameden terrorist animals and post Good Friday Agreements we have no need to see any fenian terrorist as anything other than scum seeking to cause problems for us and our Irish friends.

 

Once identified, eliminate.

 

Exactly the kind of reaction which causes the troubles to escalate and becomes the finest recruitment tool the terrorists will ever have.

 

If you want to put something right, you need to find out what's wrong first.

[Bonzo77]

I'm sure that's comfort to all of those who lost limbs, lives and loved ones while those murdurous, wretched terrorists planted bombs which killed innocent people.

 

If you can defend the actions of the IRA then you're nothing more than a ****. A Godless, shameless ****.

 

Nobody is defending the actions of the IRA!! The IRA doesn't exist because they just don't like the English do they?

[norks]

I'm sure that's comfort to all of those who lost limbs, lives and loved ones while those murdurous, wretched terrorists planted bombs which killed innocent people.

 

If you can defend the actions of the IRA then you're nothing more than a ****. A Godless, shameless ****.

 

 

and what about ll the innocent irish that lost, lives and limbs becuse of the British.

Ireland needs to be free of british rule, they have no business there.

I do not support the killing of anyone in any circumstance but i can sympathise with southern ireland.

[rubydazzler]

and what about ll the innocent irish that lost, lives and limbs becuse of the British. Ireland needs to be free of british rule, they have no business there. I do not support the killing of anyone in any circumstance but i can sympathise with southern ireland.

There is a major stumbling block to any reunification of Eire and NI. And that's the inescapable fact that the majority of the people of NI want to stay as part of the UK, afaik. I don't see how we can get round that?

 

And even if the British Government did contemplate handing over to Eire, how would you* feel, as a resident of NI, being handed over to people who've been terrorising, maiming, and blowing up parts of your country for years?

 

*'you' in the sense of 'one' rather than in the sense of 'norks'

[Guest]

There is a major stumbling block to any reunification of Eire and NI. And that's the inescapable fact that the majority of the people of NI want to stay as part of the UK, afaik. I don't see how we can get round that?

 

And even if the British Government did contemplate handing over to Eire, how would you feel, as a resident of NI, being handed over to people who've been terrorising, maiming, and blowing up parts of your country for years?

 

There are only 2 answers to the problem -

1 That those who wanted to stay under British rule could move over here and those who wanted Irish rule stay where they are. That's the best solution but it would obviously not not be welcomed as they would have other considerations such as leaving their homes, jobs, schools, friends etc.

 

2 The easiest and most sensible thing would be for both sides, in the interests of peace to agree to end the hatred and bickering and work together towards a peaceful & stable Northern Ireland.

This is what the good Friday agreement was about, but both sides need to stand together against those who won't respect the agreement (and there will always be a minority who won't) and both sides should put an end to any inflammatory practises such as the Orange marches in Catholic areas.

 

The unanswerable question obviously needs an answer but, apart from the solutions above, who can come up with it?

[John X]

how would you* feel, as a resident of NI, being handed over to people who've been terrorising, maiming, and blowing up parts of your country for years?

 

Your understanding of the history of the political situation in Ireland is very poor.

 

The 'south' of Ireland played as big a part in the war against the IRA as the British Army, the RUC and MI5.

 

John x

[rubydazzler]

Your understanding of the history of the political situation in Ireland is very poor. The 'south' of Ireland played as big a part in the war against the IRA as the British Army, the RUC and MI5.

John x

Of course it did, and no terrorists ever went over the border to escape apprehension/detection I bow to your superior knowledge of the situation. But whatever, the people of NI want to continue being part of the UK. And if you're going to criticise my opinion, I'd really prefer it if you didn't seal it with a kiss!

 

I agree with Organgrinder's second solution and about the Orange marches, which should have been banned a long time ago. But then, if we allow people freedom to carry out their cultural practices, we can hardly stop the Orangemen following theirs, can we? I believe they've even imported the practise to Sheffield of recent years?

[donkey]

............

[donkey]

 

And even if the British Government did contemplate handing over to Eire, how would you* feel, as a resident of NI, being handed over to people who've been terrorising, maiming, and blowing up parts of your country for years?

 

 

Although I am in agreement that a united Ireland would not work because the southerrn state is simply not big or mean enough to be able to contain Unionist violence, I thought your post was well wide of the mark in it's implications that:

 

A: Policial violence in Northern Ireland is directed mostly by republicans against unionists.

and

B: The entire catholic poulation of Ireland, North and South, are somehow complicit in IRA activity.

 

During the troubles, there were in fact more catholic civilians killed by protestant paramilitaries than the other way round, and the majority of the 3,000 plus people murdered were catholics. Some of these were killed by the IRA but then a lot of protestants were killed by loyalist paramilitaries as well. The story that republicans are the main instigators of violence is propaganda. The statistics are on the internet.

A lot of people will then say "ah but the Unionist violence was only a defensive reaction to republican violence." Not so. After the partition of Ireland (which was specifically designed to leave a protestant majority in the north) Unonist leaders began a campaign to marginalise the catholics based on a mixture of political manipulation and intimidation. My own grandfather was driven out of Northern Ireland.. He came to England to escape intimidation. He had not been an active republican, but was merely the victim of the little publicised but widespread pogroms against catholics which took place within the UK borders in relatively recent times. Following this widespread violence aimed at intimidating catholics into complying with the new status quo, the Unionist establishment set about a lengthy campaign to politically marginalise them which continued with increasing effect up until the troubles finally - and inevitably - kicked off in 1969. It is well documented that catholics were excluded from the political process through gerrymandering, received poorer housing and education, and were widely excluded from access to public employment, in particular in the police, which became a virtual protestant paramilitary force tasked with enforcing this grossly unjust system, as demonstrated through their violent attacks on the first civil rights demonstations, which were peaceful. It was these attacks which hardened many catholics in their opinion that it was time to physically resist. Rioting broke out in Derry after police attempted to force a path for an Orange parade past the Bogside. The police were beaten off. The first killings of the troubles occured in Belfast the following night when a protestant mob - supported by armed police - conducted a porgrom in a catholic area of Belfast, burning hiouses, driving people out and killing five catholics. The police actually fired their weapons against the unarmed catholic civilians.

So, far from being the instigators of political violence to enforce their will, catholics have mostly been the victims of it throughout the history of the Northern Ireland state. Furthermore, the campaign of physical intimidation and political marginalisation of catholics was financed by Westminister. The sectarian police force was armed and equipped by the UK government, who showed their tacit approval by turning a blind eye. It was understood that while the Unionists remained in complete control, Northern ireland would remain a compliant province of the UK. They only choose to intervene when that situation became threatened.

Hardly a neutral force keeping warring factions apart.

Hardly the moral high ground!