Angry at schools dictatorship/need advice.

[Mr Prime]

Getting back to the original post, I was annoyed about the schools monopoly of a situation.

I have sent an email to the office of fair trading and am awaiting a reply, i will be going into school tomorrow to get down in writing exactly what thay have said to me today regarding school uniforms and detentions.

 

 

In my opinion parents should have the choice as to where they buy their goods and not be forced into a situation of having to buy from one supplier at higher costs or have their child punished.

 

Well I think there is too much choice. Schools and the NHS seem to be in chaos because of choice. I agree with you in principle eg Sky monopolising sporting events but a school? I just find it hard to see a school as something sinister over a tenner. If it were £50 or more perhaps. The school should perhaps tell you what the money is used for but I doubt it's to pay for booze so probably don't feel they have to justify it.

[Mr Prime]

I thought I'd outline the important sections that apply to the op in the link I provided above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A school has no obligation to give detentions for breach of dress code.

And are wrong for doing so.

 

It has no obligation to do so but can do so if it is repeated and certainly if it is defiant. Whether it is wrong is a matter of opinion and depends on the judge of the day.

[Digsy]

It has no obligation to do so but can do so if it is repeated and certainly if it is defiant. Whether it is wrong is a matter of opinion and depends on the judge of the day.

 

Sorry I see you missed a bit when quoting my posts quotes, the following is what they can and can't do, the rest you appear to make up as you go along, like most teachers maybe.

 

Facts.

 

The DCSF has said that they will take action against schools that have a uniform policy which is needlessly and prohibitively expensive. Expensive uniform policies may fall foul of the Code of Practice on School Admissions which places a statutory duty on governing bodies to ensure that their policies and practices do not disadvantage any children. Furthermore the Office for Fair Trading has already written to schools warning them that exclusive contracts with suppliers may contravene the Competition Act 1998 on the grounds that such exclusive agreements may restrict competition between retailers to supply uniform.

 

You mean this is defiance.

 

So what can a school do if a pupil contravenes its uniform policy?

 

It is important to remember that even when a school has agreed and implemented its uniform policy it must still carefully consider any request that is made to vary the policy to meet the needs of an individual pupil. This is not only to accommodate their religious belief but also any temporary or permanent medical conditions, in order to avoid breaches of disability discrimination legislation.

 

However, with that caveat, a headteacher or person authorised by the headteacher has the right to send a pupil briefly home to put on the correct uniform or otherwise adjust their appearance in line with the school's uniform policy. The school must first inform the pupil's parents and consider factors such as the pupil's age, vulnerability, availability of the parent and how easily the breach can be remedied. When this is done it will constitute an authorised absence. It is very important that the pupil is not sent home indefinitely or for longer than necessary to remedy the uniform offence, otherwise this could amount to an unofficial exclusion, which is unlawful.

 

Schools also have the right to exclude a pupil for uniform offences, even where they do not otherwise display poor behaviour, but only where the breaches of the school's uniform policy are persistent and defiant. However, it is important that schools are considerate and reasonable and look discreetly at the particular circumstances of individual cases, taking into account the possibility that the uniform has been lost, stolen or damaged or that the pupil's parents are in financial difficulties.

 

It is not in their remit to give detention for breach of dress code, the policy is clearly defined already.

[Mr Prime]

"Schools also have the right to exclude a pupil for uniform offences, even where they do not otherwise display poor behaviour, but only where the breaches of the school's uniform policy are persistent and defiant."

 

I read that. Maybe I'm missing something. I am not a teacher though think they do a very hard and often thankless task for crap money.

[Mr Prime]

I also notice that a massive amount of it is subjective and open to interpretation. I don't see a tenner as prohibitively expensive. Some will but they would have to be dirt poor and not be spending a tenner on non essentials to even claim this.

 

Maybe you are right. I just think it will be very sad if parents and schools get dragged into legalistic swamps over very simple issues. I remember the Denbigh High School in Luton case. The school lost and had to waste a teachers pay on legal fees so one brat could wear what she wanted.

[Digsy]

"Schools also have the right to exclude a pupil for uniform offences, even where they do not otherwise display poor behaviour, but only where the breaches of the school's uniform policy are persistent and defiant."

 

I read that. Maybe I'm missing something. I am not a teacher though think they do a very hard and often thankless task for crap money.

 

 

Hmm I guess it depends on what context we define the word exclude as to whether exclude means detention or not.

 

I can and do agree that teachers have a tough job, and I have never shown anything but respect for teachers.

I don't agree with punishing a child because the school contravenes the Competition Act 1998.

Which is the ops complaint.

And a dispute between a school and a parent should not hamper a child's education.

 

Had I been that child I would have asked the teacher if this detention was an order or a breach of my human rights.

Normally without thinking they say "it's an order", to which I would have quoted him £10 for completing his order.

And left the ball in his court.

I once had a teacher pay me £6 (which was alot to me back then) to stay behind and finish my art homework, granted the deal was that they got to keep the artwork at the end of it, but the point is that teachers are not evil, they are there to educate us, and fortunately some will encourage the entrepreneurial ventures a child might have.

Others just take offence that you've questioned their authority and get the face on when they realise that if they push it further it will result in a visit to the small claims court.

[hard2miss]

Well school badge translates as not wearing regulation uniform for which there can be no exceptions. Once exceptions start...

 

Had I been the teacher in question I may have handled it differently, I would do what seems to have been (eventually?) done, to give the lad the shirt and then take it up with the parent. To the parent I would have said get the shirt or take your son elsewhere, you are not special. Hitlerite?

My brother told me about a pushy middle class mum who asked one of his colleagues not to shout at her son. This man just told her he would shout at him if necessary and if she didn't like it she knew what she could do. We have the pheonomena of parents saying their daughters should not be allowed to go swimming on religious grounds. Schools have complied. What about when parents start saying they don't want their kids learning evolution or science or any subject? Parents should conform or take their kids out, no middle way.

A badge is no more than a petty point. On the face of it they are in uniform and there needs to be room for some slack.

No one questions teachers who come to school in what they are comfortable with. A school uniform should start from the top if your trying to promote conformity and professionalism as part of their education.

[Mr Prime]

Can't disagree with you there hard2miss, teachers should be impeccable. My policy in the OP's sons case would be to give him a shirt for the lesson. If the situaion persisted then it would be exclusion from class though not school. In my day it would have been a scraggy relic from the lost property box and the resultant humiliation. This did breed toughness though. When I meet early twenty something 'men' today they often come across like a bunch of poncey squabbling hairdressers. Clearly they did not meet my teachers who resembled those from 'Kes'.

[harvey19]

Getting back to the original post, I was annoyed about the schools monopoly of a situation.

I have sent an email to the office of fair trading and am awaiting a reply, i will be going into school tomorrow to get down in writing exactly what thay have said to me today regarding school uniforms and detentions.

 

 

In my opinion parents should have the choice as to where they buy their goods and not be forced into a situation of having to buy from one supplier at higher costs or have their child punished.

 

Would you clarify if your child had to serve a detention after school or go into another area whilst his/her class did PT.

[hard2miss]

Can't disagree with you there hard2miss,

You know if you carry on like this I will want to go out for a pint with you

 

Actually your not such a ******* **** after all