Disproving the Existence of God

[Smithster]

If that were the case then obviously you wouldn't believe in the divinity of Jesus which is a large part of Christianity. So all you would be doing is following a good humanistic type of morality.

 

But why should we believe in the divinity of Jesus? After all, we only have his word for it don't we? It seems to me that people believed him at the time because two millenia ago mankind had no understanding of how the universe works and people in general were a lot more gullible.

 

If the story of Jesus had taken place in this day and age then his entry in the history books, if indeed he ever got one, would refer to 'a bit of a nutter' who believed that he could remove evil from mankind and make everyone go to this magical place called heaven which is full of love and where everyone is happy.

 

I mean, take for example the case of David Icke. In the early 90s he went on national TV and claimed to be the son of god, and he was rightly ridiculed for it. In two thousand years will there be a worldwide cult following of the teachings of Icke? Of course not, and rightly so.

[Grahame]

No Grahame, and please stop tarring all atheists with the same brush, just as you asked the non-believers on this thread to stop tarring you with the same brush as those who commit atrocities in the name of god.

 

Contrary to what the newspapers would have us believe, evil is not everywhere; there isn't a paedophile lurking on every street corner and not every teenager that wears a hooded top is going to stab you and steal your wallet.

 

Your beliefs tell you that mankind is inherently 'wicked and evil' and that is one of the primary reasons I cannot follow your doctrine, because I believe that humans are essentially good but are sometimes compelled to carry out acts that society considers evil either out of desperation or through a lack of love and attention during childhood.

 

It is very rare that I actually encounter evil. The only time I have ever been a victim of crime is when my bike was stolen when I was 16. Nearly all of the people with whom I interact on a daily basis are good people. There have been a few individuals that I have known over the years who would happily sell their grandmothers for their own ends, but thankfully they can be counted on one hand and I no longer have anything to do with them.

 

Do you remember Ian Wood the solicitor? He killed his wife and children yet everyone said what a nice man he was. When we get desperate I think there is something deep down inside us that will come to the fore and to be honest I don't think it is very far under the surface, you look for the bullying boss for example on another thread.

[sccsux]

This people is why people I am the way I am with my posts because of all the abuse I get and none of you like it do you.

 

No.

 

That's where your problem lies.

 

You see everything that is said about your belief system to be a direct attack on yourself. You percieve everything as an attack if it isn't the same point of view of yourself. Or can you really not see this?

 

I am not tolerant of evil Karis whoever commits it and I make no bones about it.

 

And that's another issue of yours. You see/look for evil in almost everything most normal people simply put down to human nature.

 

so why can't people follow the teaching of Jesus whether you believe in God or not?

 

Maybe because of outlandish statements used by some people:

 

the divinity of Jesus

[Karis]

Anyway, I don't like being called an Atheist.

 

I'm 100% agnostic and waiting for the Second Coming!

[Grahame]

Anyway, I don't like being called an Atheist.

 

I'm 100% agnostic and waiting for the Second Coming!

 

Good for you, but will you be counted among the sheep or the goats?

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=NIV

 

 

[Karis]

Good for you, but will you be counted among the sheep or the goats?

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=NIV

 

I can't possibly comment on my own life, but I hope my heart is pure*...

 

I don't believe Judgement Day will ever happen (it's really not a logical possibility based on what we know of the world). It just makes NO sense to think that at some arbitrary time God will return to judge us all.

 

It's more likely a cautionary tale like "if you don't be good, Santa won't come" or, a story I heard yesterday, "be good or the trolls under the bridge" will come and eat you...

 

It all seems like fantastical mythology to me.

 

*Pure-ish... We're being judged on a biblical scale here.

[Grahame]

I can't possibly comment on my own life, but I hope my heart is pure*...

 

I don't believe Judgement Day will ever happen (it's really not a logical possibility based on what we know of the world). It just makes NO sense to think that at some arbitrary time God will return to judge us all.

 

It's more likely a cautionary tale like "if you don't be good, Santa won't come" or, a story I heard yesterday, "be good or the trolls under the bridge" will come and eat you...

 

It all seems like fantastical mythology to me.

 

*Pure-ish... We're being judged on a biblical scale here.

 

OK Karis, that is your opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

 

 

[Karis]

OK Karis, that is your opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

 

I guarantee that it won't happen in our lifetime.

 

Or the next.

 

There are always people espousing the second coming or that some religious event is just around the corner...

 

And they never come.

 

Ultimately, I have a clean(ish) conscience and know that if there was a Heaven, while I've done a few things in the past (in my youth), I'd at least not be going to Hell.

[milquetoast1]

It's not that there's scientific evidence showing the non-existence of a God- more that there's no scientific evidence for the existence of god.

 

The claim that we will never have scientific proof that God does not exist is perfectly valid- there are many definitions of what God is, many of which are not empirically provable/unprovable.

 

The OP specifically deals with a god that is defined as omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Such a god can be disproved because, to steal from Douglas Adams, such a god "promptly vanishes in a puff of logic" as the OP demonstrates.

 

If the claim that we will never have scientific proof that God does not exist is perfectly valid, then what precisely is the point of religion?

 

Basically the concept of god, as put forward by almost all theists, is either so poorly defined as to be have no meaning, or is logically inconsistent.

 

Religion is not selling an unprovable god to the masses, only some waffley theologians in response to logic and reason talk about 'unprovable' gods. To steal the words of somebody else, this time Steve Zara. "No talk of evidence that can change minds, when their beliefs are deliberately placed beyond logic, beyond evidence. Let's not get taken in by the fraud of religion."

[Smithster]

Do you remember Ian Wood the solicitor? He killed his wife and children yet everyone said what a nice man he was. When we get desperate I think there is something deep down inside us that will come to the fore and to be honest I don't think it is very far under the surface, you look for the bullying boss for example on another thread.

 

Hang on, let me just make sure I'm understanding you... I claim that mankind is inherently good and is sometimes forced into evil acts out of desperation, and to back up your claim to the contrary you make reference to a single isolated incident where a good man has committed an evil act out of desperation.

 

Surely that reinforces my argument far more than it does yours, doesn't it???

 

Grahame it is is precisely because of things like this that people question your logic, and when you don't have an answer to it you invariably either change the subject or play the victim card and claim that everyone is ganging up on you.

 

I don't want to seem as though I am attacking you Grahame. Like Karis, I just want you to see how flawed your arguments appear to other people and show you that you are not being victimised in any way, because mostly you bring it all on yourself by being evasive and contradictory.