harvey19 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 There IS evidence of another way (in fact several other ways). The only one there is no evidence of is creation by a divine being. Afterr watching a program on television the other wekk about the Big Bang Theory it appears that several physicists tried to prove this theory in their own way but none of them were successfull. I appreciate their is no proof a divine being created the universe but we have had a long time to disprove it and have not managed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 No talking about individuals religious belief adds another layer of complexity to the issue. I am talking about religion in general, let's not distract this with a psychological discussion of belief systems. The God of the bible is limited, it explicitly puts limitations on his ability to only act according to God's nature, an inability to lie, for example. Or from the original post the discharging of power to humans in the form of freewill... a further limitation on God's Omnipotence. I know there are claims made about Omnipotence by Christians but these take the form of praise and flattery not literal truth. This is not about silly middle class religions.... this is about the foundation and meaning of religion in general, there would be no requirement for faith if God could be known or described in a way that was not metaphysical. Two things Wildcat and I have proved this from personal experience. There is no need to lie and if you do you end up implicating yourself. If you tell the truth for example about petty theft, the wrongdoers fight between themselves and may even tell more lies in order to shift the blame. All hell is let loose but after an investigation the truth always comes out. If God lied he would not be God, simple as. More to the point there is strength in truth. The second point is about freewill. Mountain goats wandering the hills may think they have freewill to wander and do as they please but they only have freewill within their own small world and there are many who are greater than they. We have freewill to do as we please but it is only within our own environment which is limited to eating, sleeping, procreating and abusing others which isn't much different from mountain goats. We have some freewill granted, but not enough to make any difference to the big picture with God at the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Or unlikely. Perhaps it would make it more unlikely, in a Monty Hall sort of way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 * I doubt there are many Muslims that would agree with Wildcat's, Hairyloons's, or Onewheeldave's claims that god is not omnipotent. So the Muslims, Christians and Dawkinites have all got it wrong. What does that prove other than people are gullible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Consider a bus. The bus has comfy seats and is going on a trip. The driver says the bus can do 100 miles per hour. You can prove conclusively that the bus cannot do 100 miles per hour. Indeed you can prove that it is impossible for any bus to go that fast. So you stand in the road declaring there is no bus. This is analogous to your position. God is the bus, and the claimed speed is omnipotence. You have disproved the speed (omnipotence), but you have said nothing about the bus (god). Meanwhile the passengers are having a nice trip. You may be right. There may be no bus. The passengers might be imagining the trip, but does that matter? Only if they start attacking the people on another bus for being on the wrong bus. Or fighting over what to play on the radio, or the curtains, or... And yes, they will fight over those things, people are like that. That is not necessarily the fault of the bus. I'll have a gallon of what you're drinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Perhaps it would make it more unlikely, in a Monty Hall sort of way? Nice one, or going round in circles springs to mind !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karis Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Don't let the door hit you in the butt as you leave. Bye. Ouch. I wasn't expecting so cutting or original an answer That 'sure' put me in my place... But sadly, THIS is the caliber of people with which you are debating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Two things Wildcat and I have proved this from personal experience. In other words, you have not proved anything. There is no need to lie and if you do you end up implicating yourself. If you tell the truth for example about petty theft, the wrongdoers fight between themselves and may even tell more lies in order to shift the blame. All hell is let loose but after an investigation the truth always comes out. If God lied he would not be God, simple as, and more to the point the strong position is the true position. The second point is about freewill. Mountain goats wandering the hills may think they have freewill to wander and do as they like, but they only have freewill within their own small world and there are many who are greater than they. We have freewill to do as we please but it is only within our own environment and if you think about it what we can do in our own little world is limited to eating, sleeping, procrating and abusing others which isn't much different from the mountain goats. So some freewill but not enough to make any difference to the big picture with God at the head. ..and I'll have a gallon of what you're drinking, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Ouch. I wasn't expecting so cutting or original an answer That 'sure' put me in my place... But sadly, THIS is the caliber of people with which you are debating... Ok. Let the door hit you in the butt then. Like the guy getting circumcised said, it's no skin off my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 In other words, you have not proved anything. ..and I'll have a gallon of what you're drinking, too. Atheists, and especially you redwhine, never say anything worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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