Rupert_Baehr Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I think it will indeed mean that fewer people go to university - but I'm not sure that's a bad thing, per se. Some of the courses offered at present do not fit the 'graduate' for employment and some of the graduates are barely literate. They do, however, take young people off the streets and make the unemployment figures look slightly less gloomy. It will mean that students will be advised to think carefully before they commit themselves to an expensive 3 or more year course. Students will leave university with large amounts of debt; debts which will take many years to pay off. 'University Sponsorship' (very popular 40 years ago) may come back in vogue and those students who elect to go to uni without sponsorship will need to be fairly certain that their chosen career will provide them with an income sufficient to repay the debt. It may be that rather than leaving school and going to university, many people will leave school, get a job and then be sent to university by their employer as a part of their job training. Going to university is by no means the goal of every school leaver here - but that doesn't mean that there are large numbers of unqualified people. There are other routes to job qualifications - qualifications which lead to highly-skilled and well-paid jobs. The university route is seen as one of those routes, but not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Why? Student loans are available to anyone who gets a university place and you don't have to start paying them back until you start earning over a certain threshold. So any student from a poor background can get a student loan just as easily as a student from a rich family and neither needs to pay a penny till they start earning over the threshold. £21 000 of debt looks far less scary to me now than it would have done a few years ago. Then again, I am earning a decent salary these days. It is all about perception. It is proving hard enough to get students from poor backgrounds into decent Universities anyway. This is yet another barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dell12 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Why? Student loans are available to anyone who gets a university place and you don't have to start paying them back until you start earning over a certain threshold. So any student from a poor background can get a student loan just as easily as a student from a rich family and neither needs to pay a penny till they start earning over the threshold. Many students, the poorer in particular, may feel more hesitant on taking on £50,000 of debt from Oxford than they might taking on £20,000 from Sheffield Hallam for example. That simply isn't right. If I was starting university after the cap comes off, i'd certainly have to weigh up whether the added debt would be worth it to attend a better university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I think it will indeed mean that fewer people go to university - but I'm not sure that's a bad thing, per se. Some of the courses offered at present do not fit the 'graduate' for employment and some of the graduates are barely literate. They do, however, take young people off the streets and make the unemployment figures look slightly less gloomy. It will mean that students will be advised to think carefully before they commit themselves to an expensive 3 or more year course. Students will leave university with large amounts of debt; debts which will take many years to pay off. 'University Sponsorship' (very popular 40 years ago) may come back in vogue and those students who elect to go to uni without sponsorship will need to be fairly certain that their chosen career will provide them with an income sufficient to repay the debt. It may be that rather than leaving school and going to university, many people will leave school, get a job and then be sent to university by their employer as a part of their job training. Going to university is by no means the goal of every school leaver here - but that doesn't mean that there are large numbers of unqualified people. There are other routes to job qualifications - qualifications which lead to highly-skilled and well-paid jobs. The university route is seen as one of those routes, but not the only one. Good points Rupert. Especially about the number of pointless degrees currently on offer. However, you miss two essential points. First, we do need Doctors, Dentists, Teachers etc. They won't be able to get a job and be sponsored to go to University. Second, those who can afford the fees will go to University anyway, placing them at the head of the jobs queue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 People will have to be very wealthy to get a good class education or make massive sacrifices which will not even be a choice for many. This is flatly untrue. People will have to be very wealthy in order to pay back what the State lent them. People who take degree courses but never go on to become very wealthy, will never have to pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagel Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 Many students, the poorer in particular, may feel more hesitant on taking on £50,000 of debt from Oxford than they might taking on £20,000 from Sheffield Hallam for example. That simply isn't right. No it isn't right. An Oxford degree has to be worth a lot more than £30,000 more than a Hallam degree. I think people are going to think a lot more about the value of their degrees and whether in fact they need one in the first place. There's a lot to be said for having three year's extra work experience over three years academia in many jobs. A lot of the people I work with reached senior levels without having degrees and just went straight into working from school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 It is proving hard enough to get students from poor backgrounds into decent Universities anyway. This is yet another barrier. Except that it isn't. Poor people will never have to pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dell12 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 No it isn't right. An Oxford degree has to be worth a lot more than £30,000 more than a Hallam degree. I think people are going to think a lot more about the value of their degrees and whether in fact they need one in the first place. There's a lot to be said for having three year's extra work experience over three years academia in many jobs. A lot of the people I work with reached senior levels without having degrees and just went straight into working from school. That's why I think a graduate tax is a much better idea. If you go on to earn more money you pay more back which seems fair enough. But I don't think introducing a market place into education is a good idea at all. Ultimately it will put off some people from applying to the better, more expensive universities. That said I do agree with alot of the comments made above, a university education isn't the be all and end all in life, however there are some jobs which require one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 That's why I think a graduate tax is a much better idea. That's exactly what is being proposed, so you should be happy. Graduates who go on to find good, well-paying jobs, will be paying for the education that got them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dell12 Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 That's exactly what is being proposed, so you should be happy. Graduates who go on to find good, well-paying jobs, will be paying for the education that got them there. Indeed, but they will be paying upfront (even if it is in the form of a loan), a sort of gamble that you will earn more. Some people is society are better placed to take that gamble than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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