Israel will require new Citizen Loyalty Oath

[Rupert_Baehr]

I am concerned that in being forced into swearing their allegiance to Israel, the Palestinians are being forced into giving tacit support to the regime which is killing 10:1 ratio of their citizens (for every 10 Palestinian deaths, there's one Israeli death).

 

How can the Palestinians swallow such an injustice?

 

How are they being forced? A number of countries have an oath of allegiance. If you want to become a citizen of one of those countries you may be required to swear the oath. Those Palestinians who want nothing to do with Israel aren't going to be forced to be citizens of that country, are they? -Though they may find that they have a problem; Palestinians don't seem to be very welcome in a number of Arab states in the area.

 

People who wish to become British citizens have to swear an oath/make a pledge of allegiance. Is that some sort of injustice? (although some people - according to Panorama - say they are 'Muslim first, British second', so perhaps that oath of allegiance isn't worth very much.)

 

Each country has its own rules. - If an individual doesn't like those rules, perhaps that country is not the best place to live.

[callippo]

I am concerned that in being forced into swearing their allegiance to Israel, the Palestinians are being forced into giving tacit support to the regime QUOTE]

 

sorry but you haven't got the first clue what you're talking about.

 

for one, Israel is not a 'regime', but the only democratic state in the Middle East, and also one in which its minorities including Arabs both Muslim and Christian, and also Druze, etc, have greater political rights than any Arabs anywhere else in the region.

 

for two, existing Arab citizens of Israel do not have to take this pledge. Arab citizens of Israel aren't being 'forced' to do anything.

 

it's only non-Jews, and not just Arabs but anyone else that wants to take out Israeli citizenship, that have to take the pledge recognising the Jewish character of Israel, according to this proposal.

[flamingjimmy]

I would have done the same. There were plenty of sympathisers, spies and fifth columnists in Hawaii and on the west coast and there was a very real belief that the Japanese would attempt a landing somewhere along the west coast just after Pearl Harbor.

 

Both Hawaii and California had very sizeable Japanese populations

 

All this might sound far fetched now but dont judge the actions of those in the past from 20/20 hindsight

 

Of course these facts have been conveniently forgotten

 

 

What happened to people of German nationality living in Britain when WW2 started.

 

I don't know, but it's not relevant anyway, this isn't a competition. I really should remind myself not to bother challenging what you say, I'm not a nationalist, I am not trying to say that England is better than the USA, I don't give a crap either way. Everything is not us vs them.

[Harleyman]

I don't know, but it's not relevant anyway, this isn't a competition. I really should remind myself not to bother challenging what you say, I'm not a nationalist, I am not trying to say that England is better than the USA, I don't give a crap either way. Everything is not us vs them.

 

Who said anything about a competition and what's wrong with being a nationalist?

 

Britain has produced quite a few home grown terrorists in recent years. One was being held in Guatanamo and no doubt after he was caught fighting for the Taleban he very quickly sought protection under the country of his birth who were foolish enough to take up his case with the US government instead of cancelling his UK citizenship and casting him adrift.

For all we know there could be a number of UK citizens fighting for the Taleban right now and maybe against British forces even

[dell12]

I am concerned that in being forced into swearing their allegiance to Israel, the Palestinians are being forced into giving tacit support to the regime QUOTE]

 

sorry but you haven't got the first clue what you're talking about.

 

for one, Israel is not a 'regime', but the only democratic state in the Middle East, and also one in which its minorities including Arabs both Muslim and Christian, and also Druze, etc, have greater political rights than any Arabs anywhere else in the region.

 

for two, existing Arab citizens of Israel do not have to take this pledge. Arab citizens of Israel aren't being 'forced' to do anything.

 

it's only non-Jews, and not just Arabs but anyone else that wants to take out Israeli citizenship, that have to take the pledge recognising the Jewish character of Israel, according to this proposal.

 

My worry would be that it will create second class citizens if such a thing doesn't exist already. Those who don't take the oath may not be afforded benefits, pensions etc. I don't really know enough details but I would worry that Arabs living in the occupied territories, in their own country, would be demonised for not taking the oath.

[andygardener]

Sadly this seems to be yet another consequence of proportional representation.

 

Israel is governed by basically everyone except the party that got the most votes (Kadima).

 

This legislation is the pay-off to Avigdor Lieberman's Israel Beiteinu party for their continued support of the bizarre current coalition of centre right, far right, religous extremist and socialist parties.

 

I really hope we don't end up with PR in this country, the prospect of Nick Griffen getting a similar bone thrown to him as the price of supporting a mishmash of political parties staying in power does not appeal to me.

[flamingjimmy]

Who said anything about a competition and what's wrong with being a nationalist?

Two strawman arguments there. I never said anyone said anything about competition, and nor did I say that there is anything wrong with being a nationalist.

 

What I did do was to imply that you treat any thread where the US in mentioned like it is a competition and I said that I am not a nationalist.

 

Britain has produced quite a few home grown terrorists in recent years. One was being held in Guatanamo and no doubt after he was caught fighting for the Taleban he very quickly sought protection under the country of his birth who were foolish enough to take up his case with the US government instead of cancelling his UK citizenship and casting him adrift.

For all we know there could be a number of UK citizens fighting for the Taleban right now and maybe against British forces even

 

Yeah, you're totally not framing this as some sort of US vs UK competition:rolleyes:

[Darth Vader]

 

I really hope we don't end up with PR in this country, the prospect of Nick Griffen getting a similar bone thrown to him as the price of supporting a mishmash of political parties staying in power does not appeal to me.

 

It does to me, if it's like this....

 

 

 

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[callippo]

My worry would be that it will create second class citizens if such a thing doesn't exist already. Those who don't take the oath may not be afforded benefits, pensions etc. I don't really know enough details but I would worry that Arabs living in the occupied territories, in their own country, would be demonised for not taking the oath.

 

Israel's 20%-1.2 million non-Jews are not affected by this proposal. It's only those that want to become Israelis by taking out Israeli citizenship to live in the Middle East's only liberal democracy that have to take the pledge to recognise the Jewish character of Israel as the national home for the Jewish people but in which minorities of all kinds nevertheless have equal rights under the law.

 

Palestinians living in the territories, not being Israeli citizens, are only affected if they decide they want to apply to take out Israeli citizenship, like many do every year.

 

this also applies not only to Arabs, but to German, French, Brazilian, Thai, or any other non-Jewish foreign national who is not Jewish but who may want to take out Israeli citizenship. They have to recognise the Jewish character of their adopted country.

 

it's nothing to do with Judaism as a religion.

 

bear in mind the Cabinet has only proposed this. Because Israel is a democracy rather than a dictatorship like so many of its neighbours, this legislation has to pass through the Knesset and finally through the Israeli High Court before it becomes law. It will be a time consuming process, involve much hang-wringing and debate, and may take years to get through, just like other contoversial Israeli legislation has.

[dell12]

 

Palestinians living in the territories, not being Israeli citizens, are only affected if they decide they want to apply to take out Israeli citizenship, like many do every year.

 

this also applies not only to Arabs, but to German, French, Brazilian, Thai, or any other non-Jewish foreign national who is not Jewish but who may want to take out Israeli citizenship. They have to recognise the Jewish character of their adopted country.

 

Realistically though it's going to effect Arabs the most, particularity those living in the occupied territories on their own land.

 

If they're not citizens, and have no wish to take the oath will they be allowed to claim benefits? pensions? build homes? etc etc