Outrageous University fees.

[Suffragette1]

I will agree with you here, there should be a reform of the education system. I'd like to see a second tier of higher education, which could be vocational if need be. From my own education, my degree is in music and i would've been happy to do a two year vocational course for cheaper, but my only choice was to go on to university.

 

I think that again a lot of this has been financially driven. Certainly in the past many courses were made 'degree worthy' so that they would qualify for HEFCE funding.

[Chris_Sleeps]

I think that again a lot of this has been financially driven. Certainly in the past many courses were made 'degree worthy' so that they would qualify for HEFCE funding.

Indeed. The HND in Music Performance was cancelled the year before i left college. I'm glad i've got a degree, and i'm not crippled with debt because i was working aswell, but a bigger debt would've pushed me out of the education that i sought.

[llamatron]

I dont think it should be written off. Why should it be?

Someone, some where has had to fork out and the person who benefits from having the degree should be the one to pay.

 

because then no graduate would be able to do low paid jobs like social work etc, you would solely be working to pay off your debt. Also you can't expect people to pay it off if they are unemployed and using a state pension to pay it off would also be stupid.

 

The idea is that most students will get a job paid well enough to pay off the debt but if you dont write it off at somepoint you will cause crazy issues

[L00b]

I will agree with you here, there should be a reform of the education system. I'd like to see a second tier of higher education, which could be vocational if need be.

Isn't this what HNC/HNDs were/are all about? Higher, shorter-cycle, hands-on/vocational education?

 

It works well in France, the HND equivalent is known as a 'BTS' and holders are generally far more likely to get a good job on good pay than graduates, and much quicker at that: they have actual, useful skills which businesses/employers need to function/perform.

 

E.g. a BTS International Trade is not just about learning about 'business', geography, currencies and languages, but all the nitty-gritty in daily use in export offices/exporting businesses: incoterms, shipping contracts, transit insurance, rate exchange factoring, foreign agency contracts, international aspects of marketing campaigns, risk assessment, etc, etc.

 

The differential in educational level only gets 'felt' a few years on, when graduates then overtake them on the race up the greasy pole (but then, a HND/BTS-holder could get an OU degree later on and keep ahead).

 

EDIT - see you beat me to it, CS

[llamatron]

Perhaps it is a perception about the loan, but I'm not sure that everyone is quite so cavalier about owing so much money and it will certainly be a deterrent for many who are very capable. 25 years seems like an eternity to an 18 year old, surely?

 

I am not being cavalier:loopy:, I never owe on my credit card and I am saving up a decent house deposit.

 

The point is it is not really a debt it is more like a tax. Thats why I prefer a graduate tax, the only difference is a word but it will stop people thinking of it as irresponsible borrowing. It will also stop the writing the "debt" off anger.

[llamatron]

I will agree with you here, there should be a reform of the education system. I'd like to see a second tier of higher education, which could be vocational if need be. From my own education, my degree is in music and i would've been happy to do a two year vocational course for cheaper, but my only choice was to go on to university.

 

everyone except the weirdo politicians seem to agree with this one

[Chris_Sleeps]

I dont think it should be written off. Why should it be?

What about someone who dedicates their life to charity? A lawyer fighting for the small guy, per se.

 

Then there is the chance that a person can become sick or disabled and they still owe money? Would you be the friendly bailiff who knocks on the door to take their stuff? A lifelong student debt cannot always pass from start to finale with an unbroken income stream.

[llamatron]

What about someone who dedicates their life to charity? A lawyer fighting for the small guy, per se.

 

Then there is the chance that a person can become sick or disabled and they still owe money? Would you be the friendly bailiff who knocks on the door to take their stuff? A lifelong student debt cannot always pass from start to finale with an unbroken income stream.

 

thats a better example ignore mine!

[Suffragette1]

Isn't this what HNC/HNDs were/are all about? Higher, shorter-cycle, hands-on/vocational education?

 

It works well in France, the HND equivalent is known as a 'BTS' and holders are generally far more likely to get a good job on good pay than graduates, and much quicker at that: they have actual, useful skills which businesses/employers need to function/perform.

 

E.g. a BTS International Trade is not just about learning about 'business', geography, currencies and languages, but all the nitty-gritty in daily use in export offices/exporting businesses: incoterms, shipping contracts, transit insurance, rate exchange factoring, foreign agency contracts, international aspects of marketing campaigns, risk assessment, etc, etc.

 

The differential in educational level only gets 'felt' a few years on, when graduates then overtake them on the race up the greasy pole (but then, a HND/BTS-holder could get an OU degree later on and keep ahead).

 

EDIT - see you beat me to it, CS

 

That is certainly the case here in many sectors, there will (rightly or wrongly) be a ceiling for non-graduates. The crème de la crème will always be able to get onto the fast track graduate trainee programme, offered by all the big employers.

[llamatron]

I am actually very interested to know why they have given up on the graduate tax idea? It seems much more sensible to me? Does anyone know?