Outrageous University fees.

[L00b]

Thats not what they are cutting though (and anyway certainly in physics no such studies would get funded by the research council I am involved with already). They will be getting rid of people doing research in basic science areas - private companies are not going to pick up the slack here. Indeed many have said they will relocate overseas to countries where university science is better funded, since then they get a better supply of skilled employees to use.

I would welcome some actual examples (note: that's not sarcasm or calling you up to prove your point, I'm genuinely curious ).

 

The prospects of relocation for tapping better-funded public research is nothing new, though, it's been happening for years (before the recession/consequential cuts). For a private tech company, whatever the State funds is something less to take off the bottom line - it's just common sense.

 

But there are very many further different factors at work. What the State takes with one hand, it could give back (and more) with the other, if it acted within a coordinated policy (e.g. limit State funding for research on one hand, but increase tax breaks for privately-funded research on the other). It worked well in Ireland, still does.

[nightrider]

I would welcome some actual examples (note: that's not sarcasm or calling you up to prove your point, I'm genuinely curious ).

 

 

Three or four companies recently quoted in newspapers (will try and find link later when not busy).

[Suffragette1]

Probably not many people cared about estoteric topics like electrons being in two places at once - required to understand atomic physics. If they had their way and killed all funding for the relevant experiments then bye bye to most of our modern technology....

 

Funding research based on popularity with the public is a dangerous thing to do.

 

I couldn't agree more. There have already been a number of Physics departments closed down in recent years. It saddens me to think that a variety of bodies of knowledge are just disappearing and not being contributed to in this country.

[CockneyMafia]

I can't believe how much they're wanting for University fees!

It's outragious, not to mention divisive, and I'm amazed students haven't been out on the rampage in protest.

 

If universities can set their own level of fees, soon some universities will be considered so inferior a degree from them will be worthless anyway.

 

Where's the quality control? Value for money etc?

Will a student with 5 hours tuition a week have to pay the same as one with 25 hours? Will the top professors be more expensive than lesser tutors? Will research students still be expected to pay?

 

How many potentially great minds will never get the chance to blossom because thay can't afford to be nurtured in a top University?

 

This is also going to be the biggest stumbling block to social mobility in my lifetime.

 

I think it's a disgrace.

 

Abolish tuition fees and make acceptance criteria more selective.

 

University shouldn't be about free education for all, it should be about free education for the most academically gifted or diligent. The system has been devalued precisely because of this utopian belief that everyone deserves (free) higher education irrespective of their educational credentials.

 

If you haven't applied yourself at school or college, you can't expect to be entitled to subsidised education at a higher level. There is an argument that everyone deserves a second chance, and whilst I agree with this, it isn't down to the state - and for state read 'other people' - to pay for this reprieve. If you want a second chance you need to earn it, not fall back on spurious rhetoric about equality for all.

[espadrille]

Abolish tuition fees and make acceptance criteria more selective.

 

University shouldn't be about free education for all, it should be about free education for the most academically gifted or diligent. The system has been devalued precisely because of this utopian belief that everyone deserves (free) higher education irrespective of their educational credentials.

 

If you haven't applied yourself at school or college, you can't expect to be entitled to subsidised education at a higher level. There is an argument that everyone deserves a second chance, and whilst I agree with this, it isn't down to the state - and for state read 'other people' - to pay for this reprieve. If you want a second chance you need to earn it, not fall back on spurious rhetoric about equality for all.

 

I must say that I have to agree with this to a point. I think that far too many have done a degree just because they believe that is what is expected of them. Its almost like going to Uni has become something that you do because all your friends have done it.

I talked to yet another of my friends with a degree today who said that she enjoyed her degree but doesn't really feel that she has benefitted that much from it.

[Suffragette1]

Abolish tuition fees and make acceptance criteria more selective.

 

University shouldn't be about free education for all, it should be about free education for the most academically gifted or diligent. The system has been devalued precisely because of this utopian belief that everyone deserves (free) higher education irrespective of their educational credentials.

 

If you haven't applied yourself at school or college, you can't expect to be entitled to subsidised education at a higher level. There is an argument that everyone deserves a second chance, and whilst I agree with this, it isn't down to the state - and for state read 'other people' - to pay for this reprieve. If you want a second chance you need to earn it, not fall back on spurious rhetoric about equality for all.

Yes, I have come to the conclusion that we should revert back to the old system, which was elitist, but one which enabled the academically gifted access to a free higher education. Many people did avail themselves as mature students and took the opportunity to go to university later in life, which should also be encouraged. How many 16-18 year olds seriously know what kind of career they want?

[Nagel]

They should also resurrect the apprenticeship program for more practical skills. I work with quite a few people who went through apprenticeships and worked in British manufacturing before it was destroyed. They then found employment in N. Sea oil so I work with a lot of ex-miners and ex-car factory workers, people who produced and made stuff and are a huge asset for their practical can-do approach to work. It's an attitude to work that seems to have been lost in modern retail-park Britain.

 

They all speak highly of the apprentice system.

[Phanerothyme]

If you can demonstrate that the leading contributors to the popular music scene as well as our current artists and writers had to be degree-qualified before they could pick up their guitars/pens/paintbrushes, then your sarcasm might be apt.

 

It's apt in view of your sweeping statement. I could name any number of authors, artists and musicians with a degree in humanities in any case. As I'm sure you could too.

 

Here's a long list of humanities graduates anyway - you may find some of the names familiar : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_people_with_PPE_degrees_from_Oxford

[fabulous_girl]

For a while now, I have thought that too many young people go to uni because they feel they should and pick any old subject, and I have toyed with the idea that a gap year should be compulsory to make school-leavers consider their options more careful, whether they actually need to go to university at all and what they really want to study. I think if I had had a year or two out I could have made very different choices. I think the changes will force people to make this move.

 

I have just started working for UofS in an administrative role and the future in terms of how students will react is as yet very much unknown, but I do hope that people continue to come to university, to keep me in my job! All university now need to a lot of work to prove further they can offer a good value education, because for many students the emphasis will now be on value for money in terms of hours and teaching, not the nightlife of a city (which ideally decisions should have been based on anyway). I think its going to change the student dynamic hugely, theyre all going to have to be a lot more serious about their studies.

 

Perhaps shorter degree programmes may come of this. For many courses, the first year does not count to the final degree mark, it is just an exercise to get everyone working at the same level. However, to have met the entry requirements, shouldn't they be working to the same level when they started anyway? Perhaps degrees will be squeeze into two years, or the first year actually count for something across all courses.

[fabulous_girl]

For a while now, I have thought that too many young people go to uni because they feel they should and pick any old subject, and I have toyed with the idea that a gap year should be compulsory to make school-leavers consider their options more careful, whether they actually need to go to university at all and what they really want to study. I think if I had had a year or two out I could have made very different choices. I think the changes will force people to make this move.

 

I have just started working for UofS in an administrative role and the future in terms of how students will react is as yet very much unknown, but I do hope that people continue to come to university, to keep me in my job! All university now need to a lot of work to prove further they can offer a good value education, because for many students the emphasis will now be on value for money in terms of hours and teaching, not the nightlife of a city (which ideally decisions should have been based on anyway). I think its going to change the student dynamic hugely, theyre all going to have to be a lot more serious about their studies.

 

Perhaps shorter degree programmes may come of this. For many courses, the first year does not count to the final degree mark, it is just an exercise to get everyone working at the same level. However, to have met the entry requirements, shouldn't they be working to the same level when they started anyway? Perhaps degrees will be squeeze into two years, or the first year actually count for something across all courses.

 

Edit: Apologies for resurrecting an old thread by the way, just wanted to get my thoughts across somewhere!