flamingjimmy Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Nobody believes in God until they are dying, and then suddenly they do. Even if that were true for everyone (which it most certainly is not) that would have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the likeleyhood of the existence of god. All it would tell us is that fear of death is a good motivator for religious conviction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattricia Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Nope, I was close a few years ago and I didn't go looking for the chaplain. It's the 'Atheists in foxholes' thing. They do exist. Having nursed dying people ,90% of them suddenly turn religious during their last hours. You cant just be "close", you have to be "very close". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattricia Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Even if that were true for everyone (which it most certainly is not) that would have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the likeleyhood of the existence of god. All it would tell us is that fear of death is a good motivator for religious conviction. I dont think it is just the fear of death, but the feel of the existence of God nearby. Ive seen dying people .suddenly sit up, and hold their hand towards the doorway. Its something that all nurses have seen, but it cant be explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I dont think it is just the fear of death, but the feel of the existence of God nearby. Ive seen dying people .suddenly sit up, and hold their hand towards the doorway. Its something that all nurses have seen, but it cant be explained. 'feel the existence of god nearby' What makes you think that? Would it not be far simpler, and thus far more likely, that as someone's brain is giving out, a few neurons here and there might fire off differently and consequently they'd experience weird things? Also, I find it hard to believe it's as frequent as you suggest, considering that well under 50% of people have NDEs, which is clearly the same kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattricia Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 'feel the existence of god nearby' What makes you think that? Would it not be far simpler, and thus far more likely, that as someone's brain is giving out, a few neurons here and there might fire off differently and consequently they'd experience weird things? Also, I find it hard to believe it's as frequent as you suggest, considering that well under 50% of people have NDEs, which is clearly the same kind of thing. Unless youve actually seen it, you wont believe it. By the way, Im not religious myself, just stating the facts of what Ive seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 That's one bizarre definition of logic. It's fine up to the point where you say "you can't be wrong". There's no proof there is a god, therefore, either god exists or it does not... So you've only got a 50/50 chance of being right. God exists or God does not exist - but that's not the point. Nothing I said suggests any probability, so I don't see where you get the 50/50 from. That's Pascalls Wager and it is very silly. No it is not Pascal's wager. Fail! Logic does not mean 'makes sense to you', there are actually rather strict criteria which must be filled, you have not done so. My command of the English language is fairly adequate, thank you. I understand the concept of logic. I am not required to fill any criteria. - Nor am I required to reason for you. Work it out. Don't be lazy. Start by considering the two possibilities: (a) God exists (b) God does not exist. If (a) then ... If (b) then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 If (a) then people who believe are right, and people who disbelieve are wrong. If (b) then people who believe are wrong, and people who disbelieve are right. Therefore, it is indeed possible that people who disbelieve could be right - contrary to your original claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 God exists or God does not exist - but that's not the point. Nothing I said suggests any probability, so I don't see where you get the 50/50 from. No it is not Pascal's wager. My command of the English language is fairly adequate, thank you. I understand the concept of logic. I am not required to fill any criteria. - Nor am I required to reason for you. Work it out. Don't be lazy. Start by considering the two possibilities: (a) God exists (b) God does not exist. If (a) then ... If (b) then ... If you wish to demonstrate that you understand logic then asking someone else to fill it in for you isn't a good way to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 If (a) then people who believe are right, and people who disbelieve are wrong. If (b) then people who believe are wrong, and people who disbelieve are right. Therefore, it is indeed possible that people who disbelieve could be right - contrary to your original claim. nail -> head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Unless youve actually seen it, you wont believe it. A member of my immediate family used to be a nurse, I have spoken to her about this before (I'm interested in this sort of thing) and I can inform you that her experience contradicts your own. Anecdotes mean nothing, I guess. By the way, Im not religious myself, just stating the facts of what Ive seen.If you think that god exists and that dying people can sense him why on earth aren't you religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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