'Xian' - what's all that about then?

[Plain Talker]

I did not say the word you used and neither is it what I meant.

 

I can't comment on what you say about Muslims as I have never come across it, but I have always said Muslims have a different god from Christians and your comment supports that.

<snip>

 

How does it? That is just flawed logic. Allah is just the Arabic for God, and as I have pointed out at length, that would be like saying the French people aren't worshipping the same God because they call Him "Dieu" or the Germans, because they call Him "Gott"...

 

The French obviously don't eat bread, either, because they call it "Pain".

 

There are Christians within Christian circles who do not believe that other Christians are Christian, because they don't follow precisely the same rules as they do...

 

I'm thinking of the Exclusive Brethren- a friend of mine was baptised in a tin bath because her Exclusive Brethren church-elder father and his fellow Elders refused to acknowledge the Plymouth Brethren's perfectly usable- and available Baptistry facilities a few doors down the street...

[six45ive]

Awww......I don't believe it. I've been out enjoying this wonderful autumn weather we've been having this week (forget today:rolleyes:) while I've been on holiday for half term and have taken lots of piccies of the fantastic autumn colours (see my signature) so haven't looked at SF for nearly a week and yet what have I missed? A thread on why 'x' is used instead of christ .

I think I'll go back to uploading more photos. See ya:wave:.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You didn't really think I wasn't going to comment did you as I'm one of the main perpetrators . So, basically, I use it for all of the reasons that have already been stated (childish, offensive and otherwise) and also one of my own. That being that I use the abbreviated version xtian with a 't' because to me the x is a cross, not the one jesus was nailed to but simply because xtians always seem to be so damn cross. So. in other words, I'm calling them and thinking about them as crosstians;)

Hope that's not too offensive.

[Wildcat]

Ok..let me get this straight. Are you saying that the word isn't the issue?

 

I don't think the word is the issue and thinking it is is to miss the point.

 

Take an example of someone who has had the misfortune to be christened Bertie.... but he prefers to be called Bert.

 

There is nothing offensive in the word 'Bertie', but after he has told his colleagues he doesn't like being called Bertie and prefers to be called Bert what is he to think of one of his colleague that persists in calling him Bertie? Perhaps a mistake the first few times, habit can be hard to break, but as time progresses and Bert reminds his friends repeatedly the conclusion he will draw is that the person is trying to wind him up.

 

Note there is nothing offensive about the word..... it is its usage after the person has said they find it offensive that provides a context for the way Bert will interpret his colleagues unwanted behaviour.

[Alien]

I think it best on an English forum to use English rather than Greek which I think people use as an excuse and I do prefer Christian as in Jesus Christ.

 

That's not going to go down to well with most of the xmas card population this year but I'll go along with you on that on.

 

In reality what is happening here is the dislike of one or two SF's in particular who use the word. It so happens at the same time those particular SF's are well versed in debate and at the same time put up some very good and most importantly logical arguments...even if it is aggressive at times. It just seems that your faith isn't that sound because if insult has been taken it's actually about your lack of faith rather than the soundness of it. Man is weak and man cries a lot..sometimes about not a lot. There are many on here who insult..some are brash, some are crafty, some are just plain dim. The OP uses insult all the time, sometimes it's appropriate sometimes it isn't, it just depends on the scenario...then again it's balances by what he takes and usually he takes it on the nose.

 

If I said to you stop using the word "God" because it insults me through my atheism you'd probably call me mad. But you don't get atheists using such petty insecure arguments.

 

Not you personally but generally I think this has more to do with the fragility of religion rather than it's strength....I'm getting that feeling that someone wants someone hushing up.

 

If this is about being sweet to one another then I recommend you all pop round to your local Jesus Army meet because this Forum would go right down the tube without the Devils heat.

[plekhanov]

I agree...although it seems some are offended and some also seem offended by others being offended..but no significant challenge has been made as to why the word is offensive in particular to Christians . Christians seem to use the same logic as that of blacks using the term "**gg**". 'We can use it but you can't', although the term "**gg**" is offensive it doesn't change the logic.

There is a fundamental difference though in that '******' is clearly a different word to 'black' it is not simply a quicker way to type 'black. Furthermore '******' is a pejorative term which was used to help dehumanise a brutally oppressed group. As racism has lessened it has become permissible within some subcultures for blacks to use the term '******' in a 'taking the power back' kind of a way.

 

In contrast X is simply a quicker way to write 'Christ' the word is just the same, furthermore in our society at least far from being a repressed and dehumanised group Xians have been a hegemonic religious & cultural force for over a millennium.

 

When Xians use the exact same abbreviation I do, they aren't 'taking the power back' they can't because they've held power since forever, they are just saving a little time, in the exact same way that Lib Dems & non Lib Dems alike save a little time by typing 'Lib Dem' instead of 'Liberal Democrat'. By attempting to bully atheists into typing 'Christ' instead of X the Xians active in this thread are actually trying to assert Xian privilege and dominance by demanding people give their ideology special consideration other ideologies don't get.

[Alien]

I don't think the word is the issue and thinking it is is to miss the point.

 

Take an example of someone who has had the misfortune to be christened Bertie.... but he prefers to be called Bert.

 

There is nothing offensive in the word 'Bertie', but after he has told his colleagues he doesn't like being called Bertie and prefers to be called Bert what is he to think of one of his colleague that persists in calling him Bertie? Perhaps a mistake the first few times, habit can be hard to break, but as time progresses and Bert reminds his friends repeatedly the conclusion he will draw is that the person is trying to wind him up.

 

Note there is nothing offensive about the word..... it is its usage after the person has said they find it offensive that provides a context for the way Bert will interpret his colleagues unwanted behaviour.

 

Yes I understood that to be the case I was just trying to get clarification from Graham on that specific word.

 

There is also the point that no one on here should get so uptight and personal about the valid use of the word "Xian" after all who personally has that name on here.

 

Seriously though..if plek has used the word to offend then it went right over my head because consistently he's used that term even when debating with others of similar persuasion/ideals. I've never once known him to suck up to, bend or sacrifice his belief because of a fear of upsetting someone..he is consistent. And to be fair a lot of that goes on on here.

 

You upset on here all the time Wildcat and there are those that go out to do the same...you just do it in your own interminable way...as we all do. That's how fragile we are bless us.

I don't hear you ever whining about it though.

[plekhanov]

<snip yet more concern trolling>

And it helped "rational discussion/communication" when in the 1st post I recall you making you attempted to conflate atheism with Marxist Leninism did it?

 

Was it 'diplomatic' of you in a recent thread to try and depict 'New Atheists' as a group of would be artistic censors?

 

It's all well and good you demanding that atheists post 'rationally' and to avoid using 'derogatory' terms but the thing is you clearly don't practice what you preach, just the opposite in fact.

[Alien]

There is a fundamental difference though in that '******' is clearly a different word to 'black' it is not simply a quicker way to type 'black. Furthermore '******' is a pejorative term which was used to help dehumanise a brutally oppressed group. As racism has lessened it has become permissible within some subcultures for blacks to use the term '******' in a 'taking the power back' kind of a way.

 

In contrast X is simply a quicker way to write 'Christ' the word is just the same, furthermore in our society at least far from being a repressed and dehumanised group Xians have been a hegemonic religious & cultural force for over a millennium.

 

When Xians use the exact same abbreviation I do, they aren't 'taking the power back' they can't because they've held power since forever, they are just saving a little time, in the exact same way that Lib Dems & non Lib Dems alike save a little time by typing 'Lib Dem' instead of 'Liberal Democrat'. By attempting to bully atheists into typing 'Christ' instead of X the Xians active in this thread are actually trying to assert Xian privilege and dominance by demanding people give their ideology special consideration other ideologies don't get.

 

I agree. That's why I added "it doesn't change the logic". The logic is similar. Or I should have said the irrational logic.

[happyhippy]

There is a fundamental difference though in that '******' is clearly a different word to 'black' it is not simply a quicker way to type 'black. Furthermore '******' is a pejorative term which was used to help dehumanise a brutally oppressed group. As racism has lessened it has become permissible within some subcultures for blacks to use the term '******' in a 'taking the power back' kind of a way.

 

In contrast X is simply a quicker way to write 'Christ' the word is just the same, furthermore in our society at least far from being a repressed and dehumanised group Xians have been a hegemonic religious & cultural force for over a millennium.

 

When Xians use the exact same abbreviation I do, they aren't 'taking the power back' they can't because they've held power since forever, they are just saving a little time, in the exact same way that Lib Dems & non Lib Dems alike save a little time by typing 'Lib Dem' instead of 'Liberal Democrat'. By attempting to bully atheists into typing 'Christ' instead of X the Xians active in this thread are actually trying to assert Xian privilege and dominance by demanding people give their ideology special consideration other ideologies don't get.

 

It's also not meant to demean those believers. Moreover it supports the growth of Xianity which occurred in Greece before Rome, in effect.

 

This is an abbreviation which has been used for the best part of 2k yrs. It is not designed to be an offensive term.

 

Perhaps though, we should remember those users of the Forum who rely on software so they can access the place. We don't allow 'txtspk' excessively, so perhaps we should consider these people?

[Alien]

It's also not meant to demean those believers. Moreover it supports the growth of Xianity which occurred in Greece before Rome, in effect.

 

This is an abbreviation which has been used for the best part of 2k yrs. It is not designed to be an offensive term.

 

Perhaps though, we should remember those users of the Forum who rely on software so they can access the place. We don't allow 'txtspk' excessively, so perhaps we should consider these people?

 

The alternative to Black is censored as an insult, maybe there are those that would like to see Xian censored too?