Bizarre: 1000 people living in a 200 mile long underworld..

[purdyamos]

They're not unable. Many Americans - and Nevada is one of the most solidly Republican states - take the hardline capitalist view that taxes should not exist, and each individual is entirely responsible for his or her own welfare. (I've seen badges out there with slogans such as "*You* are not entitled to what *I* have earned!")

 

I was being rhetorical.

[Sierra]

I don't fault any of you, really. If I were seeing this for the first time it would shock me, too. And I agree, the contrast between the haves and have nots is uh, quite pronounced, but I don't know why everyone is so surprised. Did you think we had no poor people?

 

This is by no means limited to Las Vegas, it's been going on for about as long as those flood control channels have existed. And yes, it's very dangerous. In the Southwest and parts of California where it doesn't rain for many months, the ground can get really dry. When winter comes, we may have a lot of rain in a short time or it may rain steadily for days. The ground can only absorb so much, then that water has to go somewhere else. The flood control channels fill up first, it that isn't enough, then the the arroyos (dry creek beds) fill up. When those overflow, then the streets and possibly homes flood. There was an arroyo behind the house where I grew up which was bone dry 10 months out of the year, but if it had been raining for a week with no end in sight and the darn thing was overflowing, you were almost afraid to go to sleep at night.

 

Anyway, I know some of you won't believe me, but most of those people are there because they want to be, not because there is no help. The help is there, but it comes with strings. Get off drugs, stay off drugs, get your drinking problem under control, complete rehab, complete school or job training. Are some of them mentally ill? Probably, but most have drug or alcohol demons. And even for the mentally ill, there's help. You'd be surprised how many people refuse to take their medication. The Catholic church I attended as a child had a priest who regularly visited local people like this, bringing them food, medicine and blankets. He often warned them that someone had complained and that the police were coming, and he offered help. Social workers also made forays, trying to coax them to come down to their office. A few took it, but most cleared out lock stock and barrel before the cops arrived. Why? Because they didn't want someone telling them what to do or putting restrictions on them. And obviously, the police weren't too fond of these people. Their areas rapidly decayed, becoming a mecca for drugs, prostitution and crime in general.

 

In Las Vegas, it's not hard to make a living on the fringes. God knows how many people could exist soley on the food those casinos throw away every day. Think they don't need dishwashers, cleaning people and busboys? The turnover in those jobs is so high, they're perpetually hiring. But most jobs require showing up clean and sober and on time.

 

I must say, the kids living down there really bothered me. Even if you don't mind it, what kind of parent would want their child raised in that environment? I guess a drug addicted or mentally ill one. And if the children that are there are school age, you better believe they're not attending school. The school would ask questions. Why is little Mary or Johnny coming to school caked with dirt? Do ya'll live in a coal mine? I can understand a parent not wanting their kids taken away, but that is just too much.

 

The implication is that there is no help. Makes a great story though, doesn't it? Look how some people are forced to live in the richest country in the world! Isn't this just terrible? But the help is there. There are local groups to assist the homeless, there are churches. I guarantee if any of those people walked into a social services agency, they wouldn't be turned away. The help may be stretched mighty thin, and it may not be exactly what they want, but it's there. I don't know what else to say.

[HeadingNorth]

Anyway, I know some of you won't believe me, but most of those people are there because they want to be, not because there is no help. The help is there, but it comes with strings. Get off drugs, stay off drugs, get your drinking problem under control, complete rehab, complete school or job training.

 

 

That is not help. A drug addict needs help to get his life in order first, before he can even think about trying to get off the drugs.

 

Of course, while ever the USA maintains its ultra-hard-line policy of making such drugs as heroin illegal under any and all circumstances, they're not going to get what they need.

[Alien]

That is not help. A drug addict needs help to get his life in order first, before he can even think about trying to get off the drugs.

 

Of course, while ever the USA maintains its ultra-hard-line policy of making such drugs as heroin illegal under any and all circumstances, they're not going to get what they need.

 

Quite. Drugs have to be reduced to the price of cornflower weight for weight. As long as distorted drug prices are kept high then peripheral crime will never disappear. Legalising it may be a hard lump to swallow but at a guess most crime sits on the back of it.

[Sierra]

That is not help. A drug addict needs help to get his life in order first, before he can even think about trying to get off the drugs.

 

Of course, while ever the USA maintains its ultra-hard-line policy of making such drugs as heroin illegal under any and all circumstances, they're not going to get what they need.

 

Ok. But how are they supposed to get their life in order while they're on drugs? I knew this was going to happen, I knew it. It's all the government's fault that people are substance abusers! I mean, what do you want, exactly? Make heroin legal so the addicts can have it? Does that magically make them not addicts now? Or maybe dole it out to them a little bit at a time? Eventually, they have to stop, why prolong the agony? They can't force someone to go. Maybe they can be commited if they're mentally ill, but usually only if they're a danger to others. If you only hurt yourself, and you hide underground or out of sight... If you try to kill yourself, you can be arrested for that, but....I mean, where does personal responsibility enter into this? If at all.

 

As I said, the help is there. Unfortunately, it may not be exactly what they want when they want it. I don't think anyone wants to see another human being living like this, God forbid a child. I'm just confused as to why you feel this is all the government's fault because they don't offer people help on their own terms? Should they take some of the money the government wastes and use it to help people? Absolutely! I'd love to see that, and I know I'm not alone. It would certainly be nice if they could accomodate everyone with what they want, but it just isn't feasible. It's not going to happen. I don't want to get into a big argumernt about this, and I have a feeling you're trying to think one move ahead, like a chess player. What's to fight about? I personally think there's plenty of blame to go around.

[alchresearch]

Blimey, bet it smells lovely.

Hobo World

 

Storm drains are remarkably clean and don't smell at all. I've explored an extensive one under Warrington (known as Bunker Drain), which is full of frogs and eels in the water in the pooled chambers.

 

A nice constant temperature all year round, too.

[Swan_Vesta]

Oh God, How depressing. They have no sunlight, heat, nowhere to cook and wet floors, how awful.

 

Rotherham?