Workfare - Long-term jobless 'made to work'

[andygardener]

That's the point I am making, they have a choice. If you start bullying people into something they don't want to do it will cause resentment and they will hate you for it. Not a very good position to be in if you're a politician and you may require these peoples' votes. Worse still, when people start to riot (not just because of making the unemployed work but also because of other issues, think back to the early 80s riots) it will cause damage to property and will have to be paid for. Sure, people may claim on their insurance but it's not a nice feeling going through the lengthy process and things would unlikely to be the same again.

 

My understanding from the reporting on the subject is that this scheme will be an option available to job centre staff dealing with those long term unemployed people who are making no efforts to find work or who appear to be working in the black economy.

 

They are not the majority of benefit claimants but a significant minority who do need an element of coercion to motivate them to seriously start looking for work. Getting into a working routine, some experience of work and hopefully a good reference at the end of it is a start towards moving them from regarding the idea of getting a job as a joke to moving into the workforce.

[harvey19]

I don't know if I'm "lucky" or what but I left school at 15 and have worked all my life. I have been unemployed but never long enough to actually claim any money.

 

But I do appreciate that these days things are totally different from when I left school and if you are one of the unfortunate long term unemployed then it is far harder to get a job than for someone who has been working all their life.

 

I really do feel sorry for young people coming onto the job market, graduates who have spent x number of years at University (albeit some only going to obtain a totally useless degree but a degree nevertheless!) and still cannot obtain unemployment, disabled who find it harder each year to find work and lastly the people who are really at the bottom end of the employment market - the long term unemployed.

 

Until more jobs are created then there are going to be more people unemployed.

 

I read on here time and time again that there are thousands of jobs available.

 

Unfortunately from information I have read I believe there are more unemployed than there are jobs so how are people going to get jobs and especially with the same Government who are wanting people to get work are putting people out of work and yet at the same time making those in work work longer before they can retire - it really doesn't add up!

 

So where are all the jobs for all this "work experience" going to come from?

 

I think everyone sympathises with those seeking work and appreciate there are not the jobs in the steel works, mining, engineering or building that there were years ago. But as I have said before it seems illogical that immigrants can find jobs and not local people. If we continue to import skilled workers where is the incentive for employers to run apprenticeship schemes.

[Lady Star]

That's the point I am making, they have a choice. If you start bullying people into something they don't want to do it will cause resentment and they will hate you for it. Not a very good position to be in if you're a politician and you may require these peoples' votes. Worse still, when people start to riot (not just because of making the unemployed work but also because of other issues, think back to the early 80s riots) it will cause damage to property and will have to be paid for. Sure, people may claim on their insurance but it's not a nice feeling going through the lengthy process and things would unlikely to be the same again.

 

We all have a choice though - I am not advocating anything just pointing out that as a graduate I took a crap job so as not to scrounge and so that I at least had something on my CV to show for what I had been doing for X amount of months or years... We shouldn't be able to 'choose' to spend the taxes of others as if that money were our own, and then moan if they ask us to do something for it... Trust me, my first few jobs were hard work and mind numbingly boring... Everyone has to go through this when they first start work... I chose my poison though, but those who decided not to choose for themselves will have that choice made by someone else...

[Lady Star]

I think everyone sympathises with those seeking work and appreciate there are not the jobs in the steel works, mining, engineering or building that there were years ago. But as I have said before it seems illogical that immigrants can find jobs and not local people. If we continue to import skilled workers where is the incentive for employers to run apprenticeship schemes.

 

Apprentices cost £2 an hour or £95 a week (whichever is the greater) and this is the incentive - some companies won't pay for a experienced person, and will take a new apprentice every two years... Some will keep them on, and offer a market salary after 2 years... Paying for experience is only for businesses who have the cash to pay big wages, and this isn't everyone...

[INTERVIEWER]

Ian Duncan Smith (IDS), the Tory architect of the 'hard manual work for £1 an hour' policy, had a vote of no confidence passed against his leadership of the Conservative party back in 2003. IDS was a total failure in that job.

 

For a man who was not wanted by his own party, he is now not wanted or needed by the poor of the UK. IDS married Elizabeth 'Betsy' Fremantle, daughter of the 5th Baron Cottesloe (a multi-millionaire) in 1982.

 

IDS lives in a £1million house provided by his wife's father. This millionaire failure will not attack the bankers, who caused the economic recession. This super rich Tory prefers to attack the weak and defenceless... Spineless.

[Mr Prime]

One many threads you argue ferociously to the point of distortion and lies against the BBC and for market only TV. Sky are the obvious benefactors and the Tories friends if you hadn't noticed! On here you're a class warrior of the extreme left who believes that because IDS failed as Tory leader he is clueless on benefit provision. He is trying a brand new approach with an emphasis on making work pay so no one ever gets more in benefits than for work. I'm sure he'd be happy to re arrange his plans based on your expertise.

[TeaFan]

Anyone who works with ill or disabled people will know many people who have been deemed 'fit for work' by the DWP, despite it being clear that they are not well or able enough to do a paid job. I myself know around 10, my partner knows more.

 

So here's a question: once these people have been unemployed for a long time (which is inevitable, since no-one will ever employ them unless their health drastically improves) and they are sent on a free work placement, what will happen then? The organisation offering the placement will pretty quickly work out that the person isn't able to do the work. Presumably they will let the DWP know. What will the DWP do then? They've been told by ATOS that the person is fit for work but they are being told by people who have spent more than 30 minutes with them that they are not. They were only put on JSA to save money in the first place, so I can't really see them being awarded ESA. So what the hell happens then?

[chem1st]

Anyone who works with ill or disabled people will know many people who have been deemed 'fit for work' by the DWP, despite it being clear that they are not well or able enough to do a paid job. I myself know around 10, my partner knows more.

 

So here's a question: once these people have been unemployed for a long time (which is inevitable, since no-one will ever employ them unless their health drastically improves) and they are sent on a free work placement, what will happen then? The organisation offering the placement will pretty quickly work out that the person isn't able to do the work. Presumably they will let the DWP know. What will the DWP do then? They've been told by ATOS that the person is fit for work but they are being told by people who have spent more than 30 minutes with them that they are not. They were only put on JSA to save money in the first place, so I can't really see them being awarded ESA. So what the hell happens then?

 

There is always the final solution

[mossdog]

Ian Duncan Smith (IDS), the Tory architect of the 'hard manual work for £1 an hour' policy, had a vote of no confidence passed against his leadership of the Conservative party back in 2003. IDS was a total failure in that job.

 

For a man who was not wanted by his own party, he is now not wanted or needed by the poor of the UK. IDS married Elizabeth 'Betsy' Fremantle, daughter of the 5th Baron Cottesloe (a multi-millionaire) in 1982.

 

IDS lives in a £1million house provided by his wife's father. This millionaire failure will not attack the bankers, who caused the economic recession. This super rich Tory prefers to attack the weak and defenceless... Spineless.

A parallel with the super rich socialist Blair who attacked Iraq.

[websters gue]

A parallel with the super rich socialist Blair who attacked Iraq.

 

Your living in cloud cuckoo land if you believe Blair is a Socialist. Don't forget what Thatcher said when asked what was her greatest legacy, "New Labour".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/06/margaret-thatcher-election-new-labour