Workfare - Long-term jobless 'made to work'

[chem1st]

Work for a living you mean. Shocker that.

 

Prisoners don't have to work, they are fed, the starving poor in the third world are fed. (at our state's expense that is)

 

Surely we should feed our unemployed too.

 

We just need to get rid of the ridiculous situation where working results in a lower net income than signing on every fortnight or popping in a disability claim.

[Cyclone]

Isn't there a proposal in the works to make them (prisoners) work?

 

You might want to check on how many people die of starvation and malnutrition worldwide before you declare world hunger to have been ended.

 

The universal benefit is supposed to end the benefit trap to which you allude, once in place every £ you earn should see your overall income rise, never decrease.

[chem1st]

Isn't there a proposal in the works to make them (prisoners) work?

 

You might want to check on how many people die of starvation and malnutrition worldwide before you declare world hunger to have been ended.

 

The universal benefit is supposed to end the benefit trap to which you allude, once in place every £ you earn should see your overall income rise, never decrease.

Not sure about the prisoners, I've yet to read the detail, I'm only interested in a couple of values to determine the financial incentive on a £per hour worked net increase in income. It appears the 65% is not actually the maximum marginal tax rate.

 

Yes, the problem is, I think they intend to introduce on a fairly large scale the workfare policy and sanctions first.

 

That and, the cost of travel is ridiculously expensive when using public transport.

 

Wrt transport I think it should be nationalised and free for all, the only people who pay now are the workers and they pay through taxes aswell for all the subsidies. It is a crazy situation and one that is strangling the people of this country and their economic prospects.

[Davehunt]

There is no human right to have a state hand out.

 

And why would it be difficult to identify someone turning down a job. They are interviewed (or refuse to go), they are offered the job, they don't take it. Simple.

 

I'm not saying there is human rights issues regarding having a state handout. I'm simply saying they would have to 'something', for these people who can't or won't do anything to fend for themselves. Fortunately, there are governing rules in this world that mean we all get looked after - UNFORTUNATELY, in this instance it means the government won't be able to simply take away every penny of state funding.

 

Please note that I originally said 'I agree with the idea'! - it just can't be followed through

[Cyclone]

There aren't any rules in the world that mean that the government has to give people a handout to stop them starving.

That's the human right you alluded to, and what you've just claimed again. There is no right, there is no requirement that the government feed people who refuse to work.

[chem1st]

There aren't any rules in the world that mean that the government has to give people a handout to stop them starving.

That's the human right you alluded to, and what you've just claimed again. There is no right, there is no requirement that the government feed people who refuse to work.

 

They have to feed prisoners. All a person needs do, is maim/kill a benefit officer.

 

ECHR will guarantee fair trial, food and shelter.

 

We don't want to get rid of the perverse incentives which encourage people to claim benefits rather than work and replace them with a perverse incentive to break the law to be jailed rather than look for work, and do work, for their own and the states' benefit.

[Cyclone]

If they want to give up their liberty in exchange for being fed and instead of doing some work then no amount of incentive will stop them.

[melthebell]

what i saw on the news about it ( 3rd strike and no money for 3 years) is complete and utter cack.

yes its hardline, yes itll appease the right wingers

 

BUT

 

how do they think people are going to live?

if they cant / wont get a job, and wont get any dole whats that leave? handouts from family?

what if their family wont or they dont have family then what?

 

desperate times require desperate methods, people are gonna turn to crime in the hundreds / thousands, even a million?

 

crime figures are gonna go through the roof

[Davehunt]

There aren't any rules in the world that mean that the government has to give people a handout to stop them starving.

That's the human right you alluded to, and what you've just claimed again. There is no right, there is no requirement that the government feed people who refuse to work.

 

You're clearly on one with this! Rather than banging on about there being no human rights laws about giving handouts to those that won't work - try listening to the principle point being made I.e. The claim that they will stop Benefits will never be followed through, because they wouldn't get away with letting people starve.

 

Again - I'm on your side with this - don't be so blinded by trying to make a point

[Davehunt]

what i saw on the news about it ( 3rd strike and no money for 3 years) is complete and utter cack.

yes its hardline, yes itll appease the right wingers

 

BUT

 

how do they think people are going to live?

if they cant / wont get a job, and wont get any dole whats that leave? handouts from family?

what if their family wont or they dont have family then what?

 

desperate times require desperate methods, people are gonna turn to crime in the hundreds / thousands, even a million?

 

crime figures are gonna go through the roof

 

 

Right sort of argument for why they won't / can't do it - don't think you'll win cyclone over with it tho