Asking for proof of age

[watchcoll]

the licensing board in action:

 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/Troubled-bar-hit-by-brawl.6621541.jp

 

A BAR which was the scene of mass brawls, a stabbing and under-age drinking has been granted a reprieve, provided it sticks to tough new conditions.

 

Empire, in Charter Square, Sheffield, had its licence reviewed after police concerns about crime and disorder, involving a "significant increase in serious incidents" in September and early October.

 

But restrictions brought in ahead of the licensing board hearing have resulted in no further major incidents at the venue and councillors were satisfied it could stay open.

 

Sheffield Council's licensing board chairman Coun Clive Skelton said: "The police admitted to us that the temperature at the venue had gone down in recent weeks, since the additional measures were imposed, and our main concern which still needed to be addressed was the fact an under-age girl had managed to get in."

 

Coun Skelton said the venue's owners H and J management agreed to implement a Challenge 25 policy, meaning anyone appearing younger will be asked for proof of age, and only PASS-accredited identification - passports, driving licences and cards issued by the Portman Group - will be acceptable

[Forumosaurus]

So you can't be served if you're under 25 but the legal age to buy tobacco and alcohol is 18? That doesn't actually make much sense, why is the legal age 7 years below the age you can be served?

 

What is it with idiots and the under 25 concept?

 

Let me make it clear.

 

If you go to a shop and want to buy alcohol and the shop assistant THINKS you MAY be under 25, it may be the stores policy for him to ask you for ID to prove you are over 18.

 

Easy.

[henrypond]

it`s the law!!!!!

 

No, This is the law:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/17/part/7

 

Starts at:

"146 Sale of alcohol to children

 

(1) A person commits an offence if he sells alcohol to an individual aged under 18."

[henrypond]

What is it with idiots and the under 25 concept?

 

Let me make it clear.

 

If you go to a shop and want to buy alcohol and the shop assistant THINKS you MAY be under 25, it may be the stores policy for him to ask you for ID to prove you are over 18.

 

Easy.

 

Indeed. The law is "18" (ok, there's the 16/17 with meals exception), and there is a defence of "(ii) nobody could reasonably have suspected from the individual’s appearance that he was aged under 18." but to completely cover themselves and to comply with licensing authorities, the mantra is 17 year olds can look like 24 year olds, so prove you're over 18.

 

I don't agree, but understand the reasoning.

[linzi81]

my sister in law is 29 and got asked id for buying a aerosol deodrant lol

[Amaranthus]

and thats fair and right,

 

How so? If I'm out grocery shopping at Asda with my 22 year old sister and I want to buy a bottle of wine to drink with a meal later I think it would be highly offensive and ridiculous to be refused the wine, after I have provided ID, simply because my sister is not carrying any ID.

 

I would probably do as Cyclone said; leave all the rest of the shopping as well.

[Chrisoon]

Read a story not long ago about some 60 year old guy being asked for ID, must've been a joke... Which 60 year old looks under 25? honestly?

[janeyXX]

I got asked for ID at woodhouse service station i was buying cigarettes,i said to the young lad serving are you being serious he said yes you don't look 25 so i have to ask i was chuffed to bits im 37 i didn't have ID and he refused to serve me lol

[henrypond]

I've never heard the word sale used to describe the action of the purchaser of something. It's called a proxy sale, not a proxy purchase.

 

The language is that used by the fact sheet, not the legislation. It's aimed at reailers so the language may have been aimed at them. It puts confusion into the terms straight away when it says"... “Proxy Sales” which is basically when third parties adults attempt to purchase age ..." i.e. uses sale and purchase in the same breath.

 

(bonus point for the grammatical error)

 

The language makes it obvious that the offence is committed by the person making the sale (if they could reasonably have realised it was a proxy sale).

So this makes the proxy purchase an offence as well.

 

I disgree. The joys of written English at play, but I don't see any link, obvious or implied, in the text on that page between the proxy purchase and an offence by the seller. I've gone back to the licensing act, and can't find anything explicit there either (I dithered about section 147, but I really think that's about selling (directly) to someone known to be under age).

 

There's also this http://www.northcotswoldsnw.co.uk/pdfs/HO-AlcoholLawExplained.pdf. If you look at the section on "by proxy" in the table, there is no fine for a seller associated with this, only (as in it's the singular item, not that it's a minor concern) loss of license. As all the sections in the 2003 act that deal with offences also give the fine level, I infer that there it's not an offence under the act. Also seems to contradict the statements made here that the retailer will get fined.

 

As we can probably dance around words,links and interpretations 'til the cows come home, the most powerful evidence would be that of a retailer actually getting a fine. I'm still open to persuasion though - as the internet has it IANAL.

 

 

Never has been an offence to give a child alcohol at home (over the age of 5).

 

Quite agree. I have a feeling that the 2003 act may have been the first place to actually stipulate an age. Wasn't old gripe water alcohol based?

[Cyclone]

......................................

Please don't insert your comments into a quote from me, even in a different colour it's rather confusing.

you need to complain to your MP about that, nothing tesco or asda can do about it

Tesco's and Asda can choose to not challenge people who look 40 under their challenge 25 policy. They can choose to serve parents who shop with their children with them.

as long as the shop assisstant didnt know there was a 4 year lod around the corner waiting for it then they are doing nothing wrong in serving you

its a condition of being granted a license to sell alcohol. dont follow the condition, dont get a license = not allowed to sell alcohol to anybody. it doesnt completely stop minors getting their hands on alcohol, but it reduces the amount who would if it didnt exist

I seriously doubt that this is true. A license policy that says do not serve adults if they have their children with them... No, the law says don't serve someone if you suspect it's a proxy sale, not don't serve anyone who has a minor with them.

some stores have to ask to everyone for ID regardless of how old they look. its a condition of being allowed to have a license. those conditions are imposed by the licensing board. i have never seen anyone refuse to sell alcohol to a parent just because they have 'little billy' in tow.i suspect the number of times that has happened can be counted on one finger

Some stores might have that license condition, most don't, and super markets seem to be making a habit of refusing to serve people who clearly should be served.

stores implement age verification policies because they have no choice, a lot are annoyed by it too. you are welcome to leave your shopping, the assistant would be happier to spend half an hour traipsing round the store putting it all back, than spend half an hour in the office with a policeman receiving an £80 fine and a caution and then getting suspended pending dismissal because someone bullied them

Given that the latter wouldn't happen since I'm clearly over both 18 and 25, they'd be putting the shopping back for no good reason apart from their attempt to force me to show ID that I don't carry. Waste my time and I'll waste theirs.

so you are admitting that the store policy is effective?

No, what would make you think that. It's clearly a complete waste of time since minors are quite capable of waiting around the corner.

It achieves nothing except to annoy the young looking, or in some cases the not so young looking.