Student protests planned on a national scale on 24 November

[llamatron]

Ok, well that makes my case pretty well for me. Worried that you won't be able to afford to pay for an education because the financial burden will be solely on your shoulders with no money from family to help you out? Stay in a low paid job then. i.e. people from poorer backgrounds, why not stay there?

 

that is not what I said. I said don't pay for it and stay in a low paid job, as in get it for free using your strange idea of only doing jobs below the threshold so that you can get out of paying:loopy:

[llamatron]

By the way, the Association of Graduate Recruiters calculates the average graduate salary in the UK to be £25,000, slightly above the national mean average wage. Bearing in mind that this will be 'right-skewed' by the highest salaries, graduates can't routinely expect to be earning loads of money. You might reasonably argue that this reflects a glut of graduates with not particularly useful degrees, other than that it doesn't seem to work out very good value for money for the students.

 

Of course, university education didn't always used to be purely about the money you got out of it afterwards, there used to be something called education for its own sake, but that's going to be finished.

 

would that be the average graduate salary after 6months, 50 years? Nothing like being selective with your statistics?

 

If its 6 months then £25k average is very good. If its all graduates from newly graduated to retired then it will be skewed towards the lower end of the salaries and as it is above average then its still a good wage considering how many people get degrees now.

[llamatron]

Ok, fair enough. What some people don't seem to understand is that for someone who might expect to earn around £22-24k, which is a realistic salary for a graduate in the public or voluntary sector, whether or not you are likely to get financial help from family with large debts is a significant factor. Significant enough that it might put you off. Whereas for people who know that they will always be helped along, it's less of a deterrent.

 

People from poorer backgrounds can't expect to be paid the same on graduation as people with the same degree from middle class families either. OECD research on social mobility in a number of countries found that in the UK, graduates whose father had been to university earned on average 20% more than graduates whose fathers had not been to university. For some people from poorer backgrounds that might mean that they drop below the £21k of course, but it would be bizarre if getting a degree meant you wanted a lower salary.

 

This will not happen unless you are an idiot!

[Tony]

Ok, fair enough. What some people don't seem to understand is that for someone who might expect to earn around £22-24k, which is a realistic salary for a graduate in the public or voluntary sector, whether or not you are likely to get financial help from family with large debts is a significant factor. Significant enough that it might put you off. Whereas for people who know that they will always be helped along, it's less of a deterrent.

 

People from poorer backgrounds can't expect to be paid the same on graduation as people with the same degree from middle class families either. OECD research on social mobility in a number of countries found that in the UK, graduates whose father had been to university earned on average 20% more than graduates whose fathers had not been to university. For some people from poorer backgrounds that might mean that they drop below the £21k of course, but it would be bizarre if getting a degree meant you wanted a lower salary.

 

If I have my sums right your £24k pa graduate will be paying back £22.50 a month under the proposal.

 

They currently pay back £67.50 a month.

 

I really am struggling very hard to see your objection.

[espadrille]

What sre the students hoping to acheive by the protests ?

After the damage caused and conduct of some protesters at this weeks protest march I do not think the government will have much sympathy to change theie minds.

 

If i was in Government and I saw people behaving in the way they behaved on that protest I would send an even stronger message that criminal activity does not get results. We cannot have people throwing their weight about to get their own way and I think that the NUS should absolutely send out the message that there is no place in their organisation for violent behavior.

[Tony]

If i was in Government and I saw people behaving in the way they behaved on that protest I would send an even stronger message that criminal activity does not get results. We cannot have people throwing their weight about to get their own way and I think that the NUS should absolutely send out the message that there is no place in their organisation for violent behavior.

 

The NUS are refusing to condemn the violence. A representative was on radio being very specific about this with weasel words like "it's understandable that people are angry". She was a politics and philosophy student but if she was studying maths she could have done the sums a couple of posts up.

[espadrille]

The NUS are refusing to condemn the violence. A representative was on radio being very specific about this with weasel words like "it's understandable that people are angry". She was a politics and philosophy student but if she was studying maths she could have done the sums a couple of posts up.

 

There lies the problem then. This will just encourage more people to behave violently, or at least will not send out the message that it isn't acceptable.

I cant see how it did their cause any good, although they say theres no such thing as a bad news story.

[harvey19]

If I have my sums right your £24k pa graduate will be paying back £22.50 a month under the proposal.

 

They currently pay back £67.50 a month.

 

I really am struggling very hard to see your objection.

 

I posted way back on this thread or another that I had heard on the radio a graduate earning £25K per year after graduation would pay back £30 per month.

I have been waiting for those who argue against the proposals to comment on this but none have only keep repeating about students from poor backgrounds.

I ask again from those posters who constantly mention poor backgrounds, what is your definition of poor ?

[llamatron]

I posted way back on this thread or another that I had heard on the radio a graduate earning £25K per year after graduation would pay back £30 per month.

I have been waiting for those who argue against the proposals to comment on this but none have only keep repeating about students from poor backgrounds.

I ask again from those posters who constantly mention poor backgrounds, what is your definition of poor ?

 

Its a painful amount to someone on £25k:rant:

 

 

 

 

 

............................no wait, it isn't:hihi:

[alas_alas]

Even if you're paying back £30 per month, it's a lifetime debt if we consider that degrees are likely to cost up to and above £27,000 (working on the higher limit proposed by Browne of £9000 per year in tuition fees: living costs on top of that and we're talking an extra couple of grand at least per year) to undertake. With variable rates of interest on top of that kind of debt, if you're close to the threshold you're starting your working life lumbered with a basically un-repayable amount of loan.