Time to exit the EU & ECHR

[mj.scuba]

Have you never heard of pseudo-code?

 

You do. For some unknown reason, you don't appear to have read or understood my posts, and those of others. Oh well

 

And you seem to have definitely forgotten your point/argument about 70% of 4m new jobs taken up by migrants in the last X years. What happened, mj?

 

Look, don't stress about it so much. If the UK were to leave the EU, as it's happened to migrants time and again before (people just don't seem to learn from history, ever...must be that human nature thing again) I and many many more would in all likelihood leave soonest, along with our top rate tax contributions. Then you can try and fill my job (good luck with that) and those others, while I go and contribute to another, more welcoming economy

 

You don't seem to have understood mine too well either

 

Why would you leave? Nobody would be expecting you to leave. EU workers would still be very welcome to work in Britain, the only difference being that our own Government would be the body to decide what an appropriate level of immigration from the EU would be, rather than the current unlimited flow as dictated to us by the EU. I'm not sure I can put it any simpler, neither can I see why anybody would have any truck with that.

[Phoenix One]

I have been watching another debate on another site, which I believe may prove of interest here. Note I did not contribute to that debate. Just watching. Anyway, here is post #1 from that site:

 

 

52 Reasons to leave the EU

 

We joined the EU (EEC) in 1972. After 36 years inside we now know:

 

1. The European Union’s six constitutional treaties build a dictatorship.

 

2. The EU has the laws of a police state - enforced after the Lisbon Treaty, from 1st January 2009.

 

3. The EU's 120,000 regulations will bring us a soviet style command economy and abject poverty.

 

4. Unelected EU dictators will control the nuclear weapons of former nations of Britain and France.

 

5. The EU 's six treaties will compel us to hand over all our armed forces to the EU.

 

6. Our armed forces and police have been told they will swear a new oath to the EU, or be fired.

 

7. The EU’s 120,000 regulations will rigidly control our personal lives - more than any nation in history.

 

8. EU regulations now cost us £100 billion a year. (Better Regulation Commission annual report 2005)

 

9. When enforced, those regulations will destroy most of our 4.5 million small businesses.

 

10. Up to 13.5 million will be unemployed after EU regulations close small businesses.

 

11. The 120,000 regulations will make us subject to continual arrest (SOCPA 2005).

 

12. There are now 3,095 "Crimes against the EU state" on the British statute book.

 

13. We will be stopped on the street for continual checks on our EU ID cards after 2009.

 

14. The EU’s Constitutional treaties replaced the British Constitution on 1st January 2009.

 

15. The EU treaties will close our Westminster Parliament after its 5 years expire on 5th May 2010.

 

16. The EU's Road Pricing and then ID chips will keep the state informed of our exact position.

 

17. Huge taxes/fines by the EU's Road Pricing, Congestion Charging and global warming policies.

 

18. The EU Regionalisation Plan will abolish England and our 48 counties in favour of 9 EU regions.

 

19. The 9 EU regions will report direct to Brussels, not to Westminster, which will be defunct.

 

20. The EU Regionalisation Plan will abolish our 19,579 councillors.

 

23. British common law mainly replaced by EU corpus Juris by 1992. Government is now above the law.

 

21. Police have shot 30 innocent people dead since 1992 and have not been successfully prosecuted.

 

22. 1,100 deaths in police custody since 1992 and no successful prosecutions.

 

24. Police Shoot to Kill policy now in force; illegal under British common law, OK under EU corpus juris.

 

25. EU conceived in Germany from 22nd June 1940 as the EEC - speech by Hermann Goering.

 

26. First EEC conference Berlin University 1942, 13 nation summit Berlin 1943 run by von Ribbentrop

 

27. After fall of Germany, the Germans switched the EU from a Nazi to a communist basis in1946.

 

28. Hitler's Deutsche Verteiderungs Dienst Intelligence Department (DVD) still controls EU development.

 

29. Edward Heath, Geoffrey Rippon, Roy Jenkins recruited by the DVD in 1958 as saboteurs.

 

30. DVD has arranged finance to put pro-EU ownerships into British newspaper groups.

 

31. EU has been sabotaging Britain with German Frankfurt School techniques since the 1950's.

 

33. The EU's main subversive organisation in Britain, Common Purpose, was run from the ODPM.

 

34. The EU's Common Purpose has trained 30,000 local leaders for "the post democratic era"

 

35. Common Purpose has been inside the NHS for 20 years, controls it, and has wrecked it.

 

36. Common Purpose has 400 staff inside the BBC censoring out anti-EU news and and current affairs.

 

37. Common Purpose has staff in hundreds of local newspapers censoring out anti-EU news

 

38. Common Purpose is transferring power from councillors to the unelected council executives.

 

39. Common Purpose has built the EU gravy trains inside local and national government.

 

40. Common Purpose has built most of Britain's 8,500 quangos costing us £167 billion pa

 

41. These quangos bribe compliant, pro EU local officials and businessmen with £150,000+ salaries.

 

42. EU quangos are the reason your council tax is going through the roof.

 

43. The EU is utterly corrupt and cannot account for 95% of its expenditure (yes, ninety five % lost)

 

44. The EU has over 200,000 offshore bank accounts from which it pays bribes.

 

45. We now lose £45 billion a year trading with the EU. Outside, we had an even balance of payments.

 

46. EU Constitution is similar to the Soviet. And EU Commissioners similar to Soviet Politburo members.

 

47. The EU parliament is a sham with no power - just like the old Soviet parliament.

 

48. The leadership of the Conservative Party has been controlled by the EU since the 1960's.

 

49. The Labour and Lib Dem leaderships EU controlled for 20 years - that's why your vote doesn't count.

 

50. The Amsterdam Treaty 1997 gave the EU control of our immigration, now running at 2.6 million pa.

 

51. Our infrastructure can't cope with the 10 million immigrants the EU has let in since 1997.

 

52. 380,000 highly qualified British emigrate annually to escape from the EU and its overcrowding.

[Wildcat]

I don't claim or think anything because it's not my post originally, I just requoted it and provided the subsequent reference. There are plenty of media reports if you want it simplifying though - I think it's actually 71% and I seem to recall that the actual claim is that equivalent of 70% (or 71% ) of jobs created were taken by people not born in the UK.

 

You claimed your links supported the claim.

 

Which as I have pointed out is utter nonsense, unless it is revealing something about the temporary nature of the jobs that workers not born here do.

 

I think if all else is equal their jobs would have to be 21 times more temporary than UK born peoples jobs.

[Wildcat]

I have been watching another debate on another site, which I believe may prove of interest here. Note I did not contribute to that debate. Just watching. Anyway, here is post #1 from that site:

 

 

52 Reasons to leave the EU

 

....

 

The only other forum I can see it on is the David Icke Forum.

 

Do you believe in lizardmen too?

[Phoenix One]

Extract from government site. The following relates to

 

Quote:

 

Coming to work in the UK

 

Nearly all European Economic Area (EEA) and Swiss nationals are free to enter and live in the United Kingdom without the need to apply for permission.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Understandingyourworkstatus/Migrantworkers/DG_181870

[flamingjimmy]

The only other forum I can see it on is the David Icke Forum.

 

Do you believe in lizardmen too?

 

he also believes that cigarettes don't cause cancer

[Phoenix One]

Open Europe publishes another 50 examples of EU waste

 

10 November 2010

 

Ahead of a likely agreement on an increase to the 2011 EU budget tomorrow, Open Europe has produced a list of 50 new examples of ‘EU waste’. The list is by no means comprehensive, but designed to show the types of peculiar projects on which the EU has spent money in the past. They give a light-hearted illustration of what is wrong with the EU budget, and the need for fundamental reform.

 

Despite its inherent flaws and the absence of any substantial reform of how or where the money is spent, the EU budget continues to rise year on year.

 

This year, Open Europe has also published a handful of examples of good spending, illustrating that when the EU does focus its attention on where it really adds value, good things can happen.

 

Open Europe Director Mats Persson said:

 

“The EU’s budget is irrational, overly complex and hopelessly out of date. Despite the austerity measures sweeping Europe, huge amounts of money are wasted on projects which do nothing to help the EU economy to get back on track.”

 

“There should be no talk whatsoever of budget increases until the problems with waste and mismanagement in the EU’s spending programmes are stamped out once and for all. MEPs and the Commission need to wake up to the economic reality around them.”

 

“The tragedy is that Europe could do so many good things with this money, such as channelling more of it towards research and development.”

 

Click here to read Open Europe’s list of wasteful EU projects: http://www.openeurope.org.uk/research/top50euwaste2010.pdf

 

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/media-centre/pressrelease.aspx?pressreleaseid=151

--------------------------------

 

Open Europe is a think tank often accessed by the media. Another is "Statewatch" that monitor the state and civil liberties in Europe [ http://www.statewatch.org/ ]. These two I had accessed often to support debates and threads over the years. Much of what I and others said would happen did, and the information to support such debates came from these, and the archives of EU and UK Parliament.

[Phoenix One]

he also believes that cigarettes don't cause cancer

 

That debate belongs to other thread, and I stand by what I said. There is no evidence supporting smoking causes cancer. Believe what you want.

[Phoenix One]

Foreign worker numbers surge to a record 2.4m as Easter Europeans return to Britain

 

Posted by Steve Doughty on Wednesday, October 20th, 2010 at 11:24 am.

 

This summer, the total topped 2.4million for the first time after thousands arrived from abroad in the spring. Some of them were Poles and other Eastern Europeans.

 

* Eastern European workers reaches record of 551,000

* 2.401million non-UK nationals active in the economy

 

The number of foreigners working in Britain has hit an all-time high despite the fragile state of the recovery.

 

This summer, the total topped 2.4million for the first time after thousands arrived from abroad in the spring.

 

Some of them were Poles and other Eastern Europeans who began to return to the UK. The number of Eastern European workers also reached a record – of 551,000.

 

It means the workforce of foreigners has surged by more than a *million in only seven years.

 

By contrast the number of Britons in jobs fell by hundreds of thousands during the recession.

 

The growing total of foreign workers comes at a time of deepening concern over the five million British adults who do not work and the intensification of Government efforts to persuade many that jobs are preferable to a life of benefits dependency.

 

The rush to take jobs in Britain is also adding to immigration and concerns over population growth and overcrowding.

 

Read more: http://www.fmwf.com/taxonomy/smallbusiness/2010/10/foreign-worker-numbers-surge-to-a-record-2-4m-as-easter-europeans-return-to-britain/

[supadupa]

i'm for it.