Time to exit the EU & ECHR

[Phoenix One]

November 8, 2010

Brussels Leak Reveals Britain to Take Major Share of Indian IT Workers

 

Documents leaked from the European Commission reveal the true state of negotiations with India for the preferential admission of IT workers to the EU. The UK's quota for some worker categories is 40% of the entire EU commitment – almost three times that of Germany and almost seven times that of France.

 

Read more: http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/pressReleases

[wednesday1]

Looks like some of your lot are included, brain dead.

 

25 Conservative MPs voted No, along with a clutch of DUP MPs and rebel Labour backbenchers

 

 

 

So it does ©retep, don't usually pay much attention to your fruitloop links.

Anyway I thought you'd like MORE links with Germany. Hail Hitler to you.

[retep]

So it does ©retep, don't usually pay much attention to your fruitloop links.

Anyway I thought you'd like MORE links with Germany. Hail Hitler to you.

 

You don't pay attention to much thats why you always back the losers.

[RonJeremy]

We would be much better off in EFTA, all the benefits of trade and economies of scale, but keeping responsibility for our own borders, human rights (when did we need someone else to lecture UK on human rights), employment policies, Law, and if you must mention them, bent vegetables

[andygardener]

The EU beaurocracy is demanding increased budgets when european nations are slashing spending. That alone should sound a huge warning to the people of Europe that's it's out of control.

 

Leaving the EU would be one option but a far better option would be putting the EU way back to an economic cooperation zone and mercilessly slashing its budget back to the bare minimum to operate that zone.

 

The eurocrats want to rule europe, cut off their money tap and they will have to scale back their attempts to rule.

 

All european states should slash their eu contribitions by 75%. No buggering about with treaties, just change the direct debit ammount. Let the eurocrats decide what they do with that situation.

[L00b]

You don't seem to have understood mine too well either

I have, and...

Why would you leave? Nobody would be expecting you to leave.

...it is your logic, which is flawed: you want your cake, and eating it. No can do

EU workers would still be very welcome to work in Britain, the only difference being that our own Government would be the body to decide what an appropriate level of immigration from the EU would be, rather than the current unlimited flow as dictated to us by the EU.

That's exactly my issue (and answers your earlier question as to why would I leave, as would very many others): rather than being free to come here (because here be opportunities to do better for oneself, that do no exist in several other EU States I have lived and worked in), set up shop, contribute, buy big things and pay lots of tax of my own free will (whilst perfectly happy for Britons to do the exact same if/when they go to my home country...or whichever other EU country), I would become part of "an appropriate level of immigration", my presence tolerated, under the good auspices and at the whim of populist headline-grabbing and -loving politicians. "British jobs for british people". I remember the headlines well, it wasn't that long ago. It's not the last time we'll see them, and they may gain more & more traction.

 

In political terms, it's a slippery slope to start upon, and not one which your average level-dependant migrant thinks would be a good environment for medium- or long-term investment, be it personal, financial or professional.

 

The time at which this "appropriate level of immigration" would be set, is the point at which I would flog all assets in-country, sack the lot, and sail at dawn with the proceeds, to go enrich another country where I'm not merely "tolerated". I can garantee you, take-it-to-the-bank-sure, that I won't be alone, as I've seen it happen time and again, and lived through it once already.

 

Migrants seem to have this knack of perceiving changes in the economical winds early on: most of the Poles went back ages ago (Phoenix One's fanciful linkies notwithstanding)

[billy boy]

andy gardener has just summed up this whole debate in 4 easy and well said sentences. i agree with him 100%.

can i just add that hitler was a mentaloid, i think we will all agree on that, but right at the beginning he had a great plan and he made it work.

he got rid of all the interfereing powers such as france ect and took all the land back that had been stolen from germany, raised the german economy and gave everybody employment and it worked. much the same is needed here, now.

[Phoenix One]

The immigration problem is not unique to UK, and I had ben involved in a number of these debates too. Examples supplied include those from Italy, Ireland, Greece, Germany, Neherland, France, etc.

 

However, noting LOOb's post, I disagree with blaming immigrants, and always have. If I were in many of those countries, I too would take advantage of immigration policies to immigrate to another country to work and provide for my own family. The blame lays squarely with government. Government's elected to represent the best interest of the nation and people within. I, and others within UK, and I think it safe to say the same can be said for citizens of each member state, are largley concerned with their own countries. Note France and Dutch voted against the EU Constitution which was later revamped to Lisbon treaty. Further, the Irish rejected the Lisbon treaty, and were compelled to vote again. Of 27 member states in the EU only Ireland had a referendum on Lisbon treaty, twice.

 

Note eurosceptism is growing throughout Europe, including Germany. In UK there is a growing majority for an in/out referendum on EU, and latest ComRes poll showed 75% of British people wanted the UK to withdraw from EU. I would hardly call such statistics fanciful, and as for links, the given links were to think tanks, and those think tanks support findings with references, direct references, to that of the EU Parliament.

[mj.scuba]

I have, and...

...it is your logic, which is flawed: you want your cake, and eating it. No can do

I'm not sure who's logic you are using, but it isn't mine.

 

That's exactly my issue (and answers your earlier question as to why would I leave, as would very many others): rather than being free to come here (because here be opportunities to do better for oneself, that do no exist in several other EU States I have lived and worked in), set up shop, contribute, buy big things and pay lots of tax of my own free will (whilst perfectly happy for Britons to do the exact same if/when they go to my home country...or whichever other EU country), I would become part of "an appropriate level of immigration", my presence tolerated, under the good auspices and at the whim of populist headline-grabbing and -loving politicians. "British jobs for british people". I remember the headlines well, it wasn't that long ago. It's not the last time we'll see them, and they may gain more & more traction.

 

In political terms, it's a slippery slope to start upon, and not one which your average level-dependant migrant thinks would be a good environment for medium- or long-term investment, be it personal, financial or professional.

 

The time at which this "appropriate level of immigration" would be set, is the point at which I would flog all assets in-country, sack the lot, and sail at dawn with the proceeds, to go enrich another country where I'm not merely "tolerated". I can garantee you, take-it-to-the-bank-sure, that I won't be alone, as I've seen it happen time and again, and lived through it once already.

 

Migrants seem to have this knack of perceiving changes in the economical winds early on: most of the Poles went back ages ago (Phoenix One's fanciful linkies notwithstanding)

 

Loob, I think you are suffering from some sort of hysteria brought on by the mention of immigration.

 

Setting an 'appropriate level of immigration' would entail looking at the demand for skilled and unskilled labour, looking at the supply of that labour already here, and then setting a quota to meet that demand from outside our own borders. It would change year on year depending on supply and demand, as dictated by economic conditions. Obviously once a migrant worker such as yourself is already here, you would not have to leave, even if demand for your skill declines in an economic downturn. When demand increases, you will be part of the supply for a particular kind of worker that is already here, and so fewer 'Loobs' might need to be sorced from abroad when demand increases again. A point based system like Australia would be part of the system as it would make it easier for people with the skills in demand to enter, whilst making it more difficult for people who are frankly not needed.

 

The current unlimited immigration from within the EU does not address any of this.

[L00b]

Loob, I think you are suffering from some sort of hysteria brought on by the mention of immigration.

Not at all.

 

I understand your point/the issue at large/your suggestions, perfectly well.

 

Within the context of your argument, and only insofar as EU immigration is concerned, you are effectively proposing to cancel out the EU-promulgated freedoms of movement, capital and establishment UK <-> rest of EU.

 

Whether your proposal is prompted by the (allegedly-) continued afflux of low-skilled Eastern and Central Europeans or not, is a moot point: any low/mid/high-skilled EU migrant would be lobbed in the same basket, trusting some bureaucratic system to give them enough points (and to keep them over time) to "earn" the right to stay in the UK, forever at the mercy of any legislative changes about this system/these points. Do you really think many are going to apply for a 25 year or longer mortgage in that context?

 

So, effectively, no difference or advantage to being from the EU, Central Africa or Asia. So far as economical migration is concerned, that would effectively put the UK on a par with, say, the US, Australia and a few others.

 

Comparing like-for-like, at that stage I might as well go to Australia, where the professional environment is getting better relative to the UK, the opportunities are at least as plentiful, and the weather would certainly be an improvement.

 

It's easy maths and well within the grasp of most other EU migrants in the UK: once you make the right to be here conditional (as opposed to rightful, which provides for certainty as regards development/investment/etc.), then save as to geographical proximity to relatives in the EU, the UK hasn't got that much to offer over and above other countries