rubydazzler Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 I used to say 'hey-aitch', but then when working at the BBC I was coerced to pronounce it correctly as thee states 'aitch'. Very rarely hear pronounced it correctly up 'ere tho' like.Some poor deluded fools imagine they're being 'posh' or 'heducated' by pronouncing it 'haitch'. I think it started with Estuary Hinglish . The same people usually who say 'hospiTal' and 'meTal' and 'bot-Tel instead of the accepted pronunciation. I know I've posted about this before but it drives me mad to hear it. There was a presenter on the BEEB the other morning who couldn't make her mind up, and veered wildly between the two ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 Some poor deluded fools imagine they're being 'posh' or 'heducated' by pronouncing it 'haitch'. I think it started with Estuary Hinglish . The same people usually who say 'hospiTal' and 'meTal' and 'bot-Tel instead of the accepted pronunciation. I know I've posted about this before but it drives me mad to hear it. There was a presenter on the BEEB the other morning who couldn't make her mind up, and veered wildly between the two ... Don't get me started on the BEEB. Last night, at Robin Hood Airport a reporter (sorry i'll remember in a minute) states about 100 weapons have been confiscated over the last year, so I think about 1 every 3.6 days, then he states that some are found in hordes, pictures showed a group of at least 5 shuriken (throwing stars), he then goes on to say, these items are found EVERY DAY... Sorry, not really language, but the BEEB is full of 'em. My favourite is "Sarkozy", should the presenters try to do a French accent or not, especially if they do it very badly. No, i'm not going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltheof Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Try these for size: WHY ENGLISH IS SO HARD TO LEARN We must polish the Polish furniture. He could lead if he would get the lead out. The farm was used to produce produce. The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. The soldier decided to desert in the desert. This was a good time to present the present. A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. I did not object to the object. The insurance was invalid for the invalid. The bandage was wound around the wound. There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row. They were too close to the door to close it. The buck does funny things when the does are present. They sent a sewer down to stitch the tear in the sewer line. To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. The wind was too strong to wind the sail. After a number of injections my jaw got number. Upon seeing the tear in my clothes I shed a tear. I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend? I read it once and will read it agen I learned much from this learned treatise. I was content to note the content of the message. The Blessed Virgin blessed her. Blessed her richly. It's a bit wicked to over-trim a short wicked candle. If he will absent himself we mark him absent. I incline toward bypassing the incline. *********************** THESE ENGLISH WORDS OF OURS, by Helen Bowyer TAWL TALES FROM OALD TRENCHES. But I one-der, my dear Kernal, That you dont publish the jolonel That you wrote in the infirnal Days of World War One, With shot and shell alighting On the page that you were rye-ting And a rat or two abighting At your pen. You myt make a lot of dough From yure royalties and sew Could peh up awl yue oh Around thease parts And ewer credit, now at zero Would zoom from heer to Clear Row And ewe'd bee again the herough Of aul hearts. Soe at it, migh dere Cournel Get busy on that gernal That yew roat in the infolonel Days of Were-ld Wore Won, With schott and shell a-lye-ting On the peige that yooh were weighting And a rat or tew a-buy-ting At yoor pen. ***************** Our Strange Lingo When the English tongue we speak. Why is break not rhymed with freak? Will you tell me why it's true We say sew but likewise few? And the maker of the verse, Cannot rhyme his horse with worse? Beard is not the same as heard Cord is different from word. Cow is cow but low is low Shoe is never rhymed with foe. Think of hose, dose,and lose And think of goose and yet with choose Think of comb, tomb and bomb, Doll and roll or home and some. Since pay is rhymed with say Why not paid with said I pray? Think of blood, food and good. Mould is not pronounced like could. Wherefore done, but gone and lone - Is there any reason known? To sum up all, it seems to me Sound and letters don't agree. This was written by Lord Cromer, published in the Spectator of August 9th, 1902 and extracts were quoted in an SSS pamflet in 1930. **************** The Chaos. Gerard Nolst Trenité. This version is essentially the author's own final text, as also published by New River Project in 1993. A few minor corrections have however been made, and occasional words from earlier editions have been preferred. Following earlier practice, words with clashing spellings or pronunciations are here printed in italics. Dearest creature in creation Studying English pronunciation, I will teach you in my verse Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse. I will keep you, Susy, busy, Make your head with heat grow dizzy; Tear in eye, your dress you'll tear; Queer, fair seer, hear my prayer. Pray, console your loving poet, Make my coat look new, dear, sew it! 10 Just compare heart, hear and heard, Dies and diet, lord and word. Sword and sward, retain and Britain (Mind the latter how it's written). Made has not the sound of bade, Say - said, pay - paid, laid but plaid. Now I surely will not plague you With such words as vague and ague, But be careful how you speak, Say: gush, bush, steak, streak, break, bleak, 20 Previous, precious, fuchsia, via Recipe, pipe, studding-sail, choir; Woven, oven, how and low, Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe. Say, expecting fraud and trickery: Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore, Branch, ranch, measles, topsails, aisles, Missiles, similes, reviles. Wholly, holly, signal, signing, Same, examining, but mining, 30 Scholar, vicar, and cigar, Solar, mica, war and far. From "desire": desirable - admirable from "admire", Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier, Topsham, brougham, renown, but known, Knowledge, done, lone, gone, none, tone, One, anemone, Balmoral, Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel. Gertrude, German, wind and wind, Beau, kind, kindred, queue, mankind, 40 Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather, Reading, Reading, heathen, heather. This phonetic labyrinth Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth. Have you ever yet endeavoured To pronounce revered and severed, Demon, lemon, ghoul, foul, soul, Peter, petrol and patrol? Billet does not end like ballet; Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet. 50 Blood and flood are not like food, Nor is mould like should and would. Banquet is not nearly parquet, Which exactly rhymes with khaki. Discount, viscount, load and broad, Toward, to forward, to reward, Ricocheted and crocheting, croquet? Right! Your pronunciation's OK. Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve, Friend and fiend, alive and live. 60 Is your R correct in higher? Keats asserts it rhymes with Thalia. Hugh, but hug, and hood, but hoot, Buoyant, minute, but minute. Say abscission with precision, Now: position and transition; Would it tally with my rhyme If I mentioned paradigm? Twopence, threepence, tease are easy, But cease, crease, grease and greasy? 70 Cornice, nice, valise, revise, Rabies, but lullabies. Of such puzzling words as nauseous, Rhyming well with cautious, tortious, You'll envelop lists, I hope, In a linen envelope. Would you like some more? You'll have it! Affidavit, David, davit. To abjure, to perjure. Sheik Does not sound like Czech but ache. 80 Liberty, library, heave and heaven, Rachel, loch, moustache, eleven. We say hallowed, but allowed, People, leopard, towed but vowed. Mark the difference, moreover, Between mover, plover, Dover. Leeches, breeches, wise, precise, Chalice, but police and lice, Camel, constable, unstable, Principle, disciple, label. 90 Petal, penal, and canal, Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal, Suit, suite, ruin. Circuit, conduit Rhyme with "shirk it" and "beyond it", But it is not hard to tell Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall. Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron, Timber, climber, bullion, lion, Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair, Senator, spectator, mayor, 100 Ivy, privy, famous; clamour Has the A of drachm and hammer. Pussy, hussy and possess, Desert, but desert, address. Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants Hoist in lieu of flags left pennants. Courier, courtier, tomb, bomb, comb, Cow, but Cowper, some and home. "Solder, soldier! Blood is thicker", Quoth he, "than liqueur or liquor", 110 Making, it is sad but true, In bravado, much ado. Stranger does not rhyme with anger, Neither does devour with clangour. Pilot, pivot, gaunt, but aunt, Font, front, wont, want, grand and grant. Arsenic, specific, scenic, Relic, rhetoric, hygienic. Gooseberry, goose, and close, but close, Paradise, rise, rose, and dose. 120 Say inveigh, neigh, but inveigle, Make the latter rhyme with eagle. Mind! Meandering but mean, Valentine and magazine. And I bet you, dear, a penny, You say mani-(fold) like many, Which is wrong. Say rapier, pier, Tier (one who ties), but tier. Arch, archangel; pray, does erring Rhyme with herring or with stirring? 130 Prison, bison, treasure trove, Treason, hover, cover, cove, Perseverance, severance. Ribald Rhymes (but piebald doesn't) with nibbled. Phaeton, paean, gnat, ghat, gnaw, Lien, psychic, shone, bone, pshaw. Don't be down, my own, but rough it, And distinguish buffet, buffet; Brood, stood, roof, rook, school, wool, boon, Worcester, Boleyn, to impugn. 140 Say in sounds correct and sterling Hearse, hear, hearken, year and yearling. Evil, devil, mezzotint, Mind the z! (A gentle hint.) Now you need not pay attention To such sounds as I don't mention, Sounds like pores, pause, pours and paws, Rhyming with the pronoun yours; Nor are proper names included, Though I often heard, as you did, 150 Funny rhymes to unicorn, Yes, you know them, Vaughan and Strachan. No, my maiden, coy and comely, I don't want to speak of Cholmondeley. No. Yet Froude compared with proud Is no better than McLeod. But mind trivial and vial, Tripod, menial, denial, Troll and trolley, realm and ream, Schedule, mischief, schism, and scheme. 160 Argil, gill, Argyll, gill. Surely May be made to rhyme with Raleigh, But you're not supposed to say Piquet rhymes with sobriquet. Had this invalid invalid Worthless documents? How pallid, How uncouth he, couchant, looked, When for Portsmouth I had booked! Zeus, Thebes, Thales, Aphrodite, Paramour, enamoured, flighty, 170 Episodes, antipodes, Acquiesce, and obsequies. Please don't monkey with the geyser, Don't peel 'taters with my razor, Rather say in accents pure: Nature, stature and mature. Pious, impious, limb, climb, glumly, Worsted, worsted, crumbly, dumbly, Conquer, conquest, vase, phase, fan, Wan, sedan and artisan. 180 The TH will surely trouble you More than R, CH or W. Say then these phonetic gems: Thomas, thyme, Theresa, Thames. Thompson, Chatham, Waltham, Streatham, There are more but I forget 'em - Wait! I've got it: Anthony, Lighten your anxiety. The archaic word albeit Does not rhyme with eight - you see it; 190 With and forthwith, one has voice, One has not, you make your choice. Shoes, goes, does [1]. Now first say: finger; Then say: singer, ginger, linger. Real, zeal, mauve, gauze and gauge, Marriage, foliage, mirage, age, Hero, heron, query, very, Parry, tarry, fury, bury, Dost, lost, post, and doth, cloth, loth, Job, Job, blossom, bosom, oath. 200 Faugh, oppugnant, keen oppugners, Bowing, bowing, banjo-tuners Holm you know, but noes, canoes, Puisne, truism, use, to use? Though the difference seems little, We say actual, but victual, Seat, sweat, chaste, caste, Leigh, eight, height, Put, nut, granite, and unite Reefer does not rhyme with deafer, Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer. 210 Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late, Hint, pint, senate, but sedate. Gaelic, Arabic, pacific, Science, conscience, scientific; Tour, but our, dour, succour, four, Gas, alas, and Arkansas. Say manoeuvre, yacht and vomit, Next omit, which differs from it Bona fide, alibi Gyrate, dowry and awry. 220 Sea, idea, guinea, area, Psalm, Maria, but malaria. Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean, Doctrine, turpentine, marine. Compare alien with Italian, Dandelion with battalion, Rally with ally; yea, ye, Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay! Say aver, but ever, fever, Neither, leisure, skein, receiver. 230 Never guess - it is not safe, We say calves, valves, half, but Ralf. Starry, granary, canary, Crevice, but device, and eyrie, Face, but preface, then grimace, Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass. Bass, large, target, gin, give, verging, Ought, oust, joust, and scour, but scourging; Ear, but earn; and ere and tear Do not rhyme with here but heir. 240 Mind the O of off and often Which may be pronounced as orphan, With the sound of saw and sauce; Also soft, lost, cloth and cross. Pudding, puddle, putting. Putting? Yes: at golf it rhymes with shutting. Respite, spite, consent, resent. Liable, but Parliament. Seven is right, but so is even, Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen, 250 Monkey, donkey, clerk and jerk, Asp, grasp, wasp, demesne, cork, work. A of valour, vapid, vapour, S of news (compare newspaper), G of gibbet, gibbon, gist, I of antichrist and grist, Differ like diverse and divers, Rivers, strivers, shivers, fivers. Once, but nonce, toll, doll, but roll, Polish, Polish, poll and poll. 260 Pronunciation - think of Psyche! - Is a paling, stout and spiky. Won't it make you lose your wits Writing groats and saying 'grits'? It's a dark abyss or tunnel Strewn with stones like rowlock, gunwale, Islington, and Isle of Wight, Housewife, verdict and indict. Don't you think so, reader, rather, Saying lather, bather, father? 270 Finally, which rhymes with enough, Though, through, bough, cough, hough, sough, tough?? Hiccough has the sound of sup... My advice is: GIVE IT UP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 well, that was certainly a thread killer. What more can possibly be said ... after a 90cm post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted November 16, 2010 Author Share Posted November 16, 2010 well, that was certainly a thread killer. What more can possibly be said ... after a 90cm post! TBH, I got as far as the first section, the rest was hard going but I did email that first bit to some family and friends with kids... Oral lessons for the kids We must polish the Polish furniture. He could lead if he would get the lead out. The farm was used to produce produce. The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. The soldier decided to desert in the desert. This was a good time to present the present. A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. I did not object to the object. The insurance was invalid for the invalid. The bandage was wound around the wound. There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row. They were too close to the door to close it. The buck does funny things when the does are present. They sent a sewer down to stitch the tear in the sewer line. To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. The wind was too strong to wind the sail. After a number of injections my jaw got number. Upon seeing the tear in my clothes I shed a tear. I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend? I read it once and will read it agen I learned much from this learned treatise. I was content to note the content of the message. The Blessed Virgin blessed her. Blessed her richly. It's a bit wicked to over-trim a short wicked candle. If he will absent himself we mark him absent. I incline toward bypassing the incline. p.s. Title slightly changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltheof Posted November 16, 2010 Share Posted November 16, 2010 Well, I certainly didn't aim to kill the thread, I included so much because I thought it would amuse readers and amply illustrate the irrationality of English spelling. I'm sorry if some people found it a turn-off. Like many things English, the history of spelling of the language consists of series of overlays, gradually evolving, and not even standardised, to the extent that it is, until the later 18th century (remember the half-dozen different ways Shakespeare signed his own name on the surviving documents?). Some of the silent letters, for instance, like the k in knight, knee etc, go back to Old English where the consonant was sounded (spelt then as cniht and cneo), and the gh also represents the affricate (as in German Ich) which was also sounded but lost in later pronunciation, though the archaic spelling was preserved. The Norman conquest brought in new ways of spelling English sounds unfamiliar to scribes who spoke Norman French, and those ways have also been preserved. Some classical scholars in the Renaissance were too smart for their own good, thinking that the etymology some words came straight from Latin--so they "restored" the b in debt (thinking it was from Latin debitum) and in doubt (as if it was from Latin dubitum), and the p in receipt (as if it came from Latin receptum). All these layers built up to cause the chaotic situation we now have. Proposalsfor spelling reform, from the 16th to the 20th century, have successively failed or been ignored, and Britain never had the equivalent of the French Academie Francaise or the Italian Accademia della Crusca to rationalise the spelling (even so, look at all the silent letters in French spelling, which are also historic). There you have it. People just prefer to learn spellings by memory, whether they are rational or not. Now tell me I have condemned the thread to a second death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombles Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 it can act as both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 Well, I certainly didn't aim to kill the thread, I included so much because I thought it would amuse readers and amply illustrate the irrationality of English spelling. I'm sorry if some people found it a turn-off. Like many things English, the history of spelling of the language consists of series of overlays, gradually evolving, and not even standardised, to the extent that it is, until the later 18th century (remember the half-dozen different ways Shakespeare signed his own name on the surviving documents?). Some of the silent letters, for instance, like the k in knight, knee etc, go back to Old English where the consonant was sounded (spelt then as cniht and cneo), and the gh also represents the affricate (as in German Ich) which was also sounded but lost in later pronunciation, though the archaic spelling was preserved. The Norman conquest brought in new ways of spelling English sounds unfamiliar to scribes who spoke Norman French, and those ways have also been preserved. Some classical scholars in the Renaissance were too smart for their own good, thinking that the etymology some words came straight from Latin--so they "restored" the b in debt (thinking it was from Latin debitum) and in doubt (as if it was from Latin dubitum), and the p in receipt (as if it came from Latin receptum). All these layers built up to cause the chaotic situation we now have. Proposalsfor spelling reform, from the 16th to the 20th century, have successively failed or been ignored, and Britain never had the equivalent of the French Academie Francaise or the Italian Accademia della Crusca to rationalise the spelling (even so, look at all the silent letters in French spelling, which are also historic). There you have it. People just prefer to learn spellings by memory, whether they are rational or not. Now tell me I have condemned the thread to a second death... I appreciate your posts. And as to the English language not being reformed, i'd like to think it adds a touch of culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treatment Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Nowt better than a good diphthong, in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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