NHS-cant be bothered attitude?

[Gnnnik]

I agree the NHS is not all its cracked up. I was there the other night with someone and they lost his blood sample twice, minutes after taking it. They also lost the letter sent by his GP explaining medical history and reason for referal. We arrived at 6.00 and left at midnight. Very poor.

 

I went many years ago and I couldn't get anyone to understand that I was on A T E N O L O L. Jesus we're in trouble.

[Rupert_Baehr]

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[watchcoll]

You would indeed.

 

 

 

All of those charges would have been paid by the other party's insurer - just as they were in the UK. The NHS didn't pay for your treatment - they may have provided it, but as you said, the other party's insurance company paid for it.

 

 

 

From what you've said, the same would have happened in the US. Treatment and rehabilitation would be provided and organised for you. And you would've got a free TV and your visitors wouldn't have to pay to park when they came to visit you.

 

You would probably also have received a considerable sum in compensation for pain, suffering and loss of amenity (You may have been eligible for that in the UK and you may have claimed it - but in the US, the payout would probably have been higher.)

 

If you had had the accident in the US and the other driver had not been insured, you would have received the same level of treatment and either your own insurance policy would have paid it or - in the event that you also had 'uninsured motorist' coverage (a cheap policy which covers damages you don't want to claim for against your own insurance [to avoid increasing the premiums]) then your UIM policy would've covered it.

 

I have a US motor insurance policy. - I can't remember offhand what the limit is on medical coverage (coverage for my own injuries in the event of an accident in which I'm the driver) but it's at least $500,000.

 

what would happen if it wasnt a car accident though, and there was no one to 'blame' as it were?

im my case it wasnt a motor accident, but a heavy weight fell on me when it shouldnt have fallen down in the first place. thankfully the company has liability insurance which means i dont have to spend the money i was saving for a mortgage deposit on food and rent for the next year whilst i cant work.

 

but what if i had simply fallen down the stairs? or had an ongoing illness? (i'm quite interested in the account of someone who has experienced it rather than the biased agenda of a media publication!)

 

im working on the assumption that the NHS wouldnt have charged me for the cost if there was no motor/liability insurance policy to claim it back from?

[Ms Macbeth]

I'm grateful to the NHS, especially the NGH here in Sheffield. They are rated highly for heart surgery, and they gave my OH his life back in 1996 - with a bypass. He had further heart surgery more recently, and again its made a huge difference to his quality of life.

 

However, I have to agree that whilst the great majority of nursing and medical staff are first rate, there are those who really need to remember they are in a caring profession. The odd one or two can really make a hospital stay difficult. Nevertheless when a patient needs something, they must ask, or get someone to ask for them.

 

We didn't mind paying for the TV, my OH didn't have to pay for food when he was in hospital - and as he was on a special diet, his visitors bought tv time rather than bring fruit etc. TV helped him pass the time and meant he didn't have to listen to the moaner in the next bed. There were far sicker people in the ward, but this guy just wanted everything to revolve round him - and he kept watching his tv without the headphones - disturbing everyone else's rest.

[Rupert_Baehr]

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[watchcoll]

In a case like that, the company in the US would also have liability insurance.

OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) is every bit as strict as 'Health and Safety' in the UK and if the company was in breach of Health & Safety rules, they would be liable at law for that breach. Otherwise you would be able to hire a tort lawyer (they usually work on a percentage) to sue the company. You would probably have a choice - a bigger choice than you want.

 

 

 

If you're talking about a domestic accident where there is absolutely nobody to sue, or a general health problem, then there would be 4 possible outcomes:

 

1. You are poor and are eligible for Medicaid - The state pays. You receive care in the same hospital that other (paying) people use, to the same standard and from the same doctors. The difference is you don't get a bill.

 

2. You are retired and are eligible for Medicare. - The federal government pays (but there may be a co-pay) I don't know what the fees are (I don't use Medicare ... yet.) Harley or Poppins or one of the others might like to comment on the standard and cost of Medicare?

 

I understand that Obama's Health Bill is going to get some of its funding by taking money out of the Medicare budget. Apparently, if you take money away from Medicare that won't affect the standard of care provided ...and the cheque's in the post, my friend with the wallet will pay, I won't (well you've probably heard them all... )

 

3. If you have a job which has Health Insurance or if you pay for your own health insurance then your Insurance company would should pay. You would probably have a co-pay, but you could take out an additional insurance to cover that. The insurer which covers me (and I have cover for life) pays 75% of the (allowable) charge, but once my family (between them) have made a total co-payment of $3000 in any one year, the Insurer picks up the lot. If I was living in the US I could pay a small supplement and I would then only have to pay a maximum of $15 per 'event'. I could even insure against that $15 - but it probably wouldn't be worth it.

 

US health insurance companies (perhaps like insurers elsewhere) seem to do their best to get out of paying. The way hospitals and doctors levy charges was addressed in another thread some months ago, but basically, the Insurance companies have 'preferred providers'- people or organisations who agree to accept (in full payment) the amount the insurer is willing to pay for a given procedure. It's a good idea to use one of those providers, because if you don't, you could end up paying a lot more than you might expect.

 

4. If you don't have private health insurance, you are too wealthy (and that's not very wealthy really) for Medicaid and too young for Medicare, then you would receive treatment but you would also get a big bill and you might go bankrupt. The treatment comes before the bankruptcy, however.

Obama's Health bill is supposed to plug that gap - but I've almost no knowledge about that. (Again, Harley or Poppins might comment.)

 

 

 

AFAIK, the NHS recovers costs where it is able to do so. - So in the event of a Road Traffic Accident, they will try to recover costs from the motor insurer. As for other liability insurance (if it existed and they knew about it), I assume they would try - but I don't know.

 

As far as an illness goes (and you mentioned that scenario when you were considering the US) then the NHS would treat you at no cost provided the treatment you needed was available on the NHS where you lived. (Postcode Lotteries, allocation of funds, 'NICE' considerations, etc.) The NHS does not provide treatment for every illness. - It doesn't have unlimited money.

 

Healthcare is a 'scarce resource' - in that it's not unlimited. Scarce resources are rationed either by charge or by waiting time. People often argue that rationing by charge is wrong and that the NHS does not do that. Really? - What about treatments which the NHS says are 'too expensive'? Isn't that 'rationing by charge'? - Those who can afford to pay 'go private' and get the treatment. Those who can't afford to pay don't get it.

 

I injured my back (in the UK) and needed an MRI. No problem. It was available on the NHS ... but there was a 3-month wait. I did it through my Insurance and had to wait 2 days.

 

I don't think that there's such a thing as a perfect system. - I've used the German healthcare system and I prefer that to the NHS. - the waiting times are shorter, the charges are set by the State (so you don't get a higher bill in one place than in another) but the amount you -as an individual - pay for healthcare is significantly higher than people in the UK pay. In Germany every wage earner pays about 10% of their gross salary for health insurance(starting from the first Euro earned.)

 

There are a few exceptions; some people are allowed to opt-out of the State scheme - but all people are required to have medical insurance. There is a small co-payment (up to about 10 Euros.)

 

I have very limited experience of the NHS. I used it once after a RTA - was told I'd got broken ribs [i knew that already] and to go home.

 

thank you for the truthful insight. but all that has my head spinning. it all sounds so complicated, and the bit i've highlighted does surprise me tbh

it would worry me to know that potentially my life could be in the hands of an insurance company. and i wouldnt have a clue with where to start in amongst all those options.

 

Treatment and rehabilitation would be provided and organised for you. And you would've got a free TV and your visitors wouldn't have to pay to park when they came to visit you.

 

my idea of the lack of worry about my recovery comes from the notion that if i have an accident an ambulance will come get me, take me to hospital, a doctor will fix me, a physio will help me get mobile again and i will get on with my life without having to worry about how much that all cost and how it was paid for and i will never get an invoice for it all - to be honest its not even something that i have ever considered. its only because my solicitor told me that the NHS recover costs that i thought about it.

 

i dont envy anyone who has to go through the trauma of injury and loss of income and then also have to worry whether they can afford to pay for the medical care that saved their life. would you be able to sign a declaration saying "Do not save me, i cant afford the bills if i live"? if you couldnt afford insurance and didnt qualify for the 'welfare' element?

 

insurance through an employer sounds better. i know everytime i get my yearly break down of what my company pension and life insurance are worth all it does is remind me that i am worth more dead than alive!

[Swan_Vesta]

I've never had issue with the NHS. They've saved my life, they've patched me up when I needed it, they've given me immediate treatment when I needed it - I have enormous respect and grattitude to the staff of the NHS.

 

The system isn't perfect but compared with the rest of the world it's heaven sent. People don't like it then go to BUPA but that costs money ... Far easier to slag off something which is effectively free.

[Rupert_Baehr]

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