In America, it's far more shameful to owe money than it is to steal it

[Wildcat]

Work very hard, save, spend, work hard, get completely f$*+$d by the pigs in suits. Feel guilty, work very hard, save, spend, work even harder, get com.........Boy! do we lap it up and pay them for the inconvenience.

 

Personally? I have no sympathy for the blind stupidity of the people.

 

The problem is their gullibility brings us all down.

[Alien]

The problem is their gullibility brings us all down.

 

 

I know what you're saying but "gullibility" is just another term for greed. I totally agree with your link but the people are just as greedy at the bottom as those at the top. They both feed off each other like cannibalistic parasites. One just has the ways and means of doing it in a bigger way...but the "bigger way" won't stop unless we all stop feeding from the very small trough.

[Wildcat]

I know what you're saying but "gullibility" is just another term for greed. I totally agree with your link but the people are just as greedy at the bottom as those at the top. They both feed off each other like cannibalistic parasites. One just has the ways and means of doing it in a bigger way...but the "bigger way" won't stop unless we all stop feeding from the very small trough.

 

Its not greed that caused people to borrow money to pay for a home with enough rooms to accommodate their families.

 

It is greed to defraud the poor out of their money and make them homeless.

 

There is a big difference.

[Alien]

Its not greed that caused people to borrow money to pay for a home with enough rooms to accommodate their families.

 

It is greed to defraud the poor out of their money and make them homeless.

 

There is a big difference.

 

It's much simpler to defraud if your victim is gullible. If you add apathy into the equation especially in America where nothing is for nothing, then the only conclusion is...'hey" I'm going to get something for nothing' Of all the places in the West, nothing for nothing isn't going to happen in the US, it never has. In fact it goes against every principle.

 

Put it this way..If you were offered a 2million mortgage, would you take it if you couldn't afford it? If you did you have to ask yourself why.

[lauren84]

When we were house hunting I remember Northern Rock offering a vast amount more than the other mortgage companies. We ended up going with them for their good interest rate but sticking to our original budget as being the cynical young uns we are (or rather we were) decided it was too good to be true.......

 

Glad we had the good sense to be honest as other people at our age at the time (we were 20 and 21) ended up taking out ridiculous amounts for their income.

[Halibut]

And it is my judgement that you like to bash amreicans.

This is mearly a smoke screen to make you look all Amreica friendly so you can come on here at a later date and bash the americans again.

Mr Predictabilityamundo!

 

You don't know your arse from your elbow.

[Wildcat]

It's much simpler to defraud if your victim is gullible. If you add apathy into the equation especially in America where nothing is for nothing, then the only conclusion is...'hey" I'm going to get something for nothing' Of all the places in the West, nothing for nothing isn't going to happen in the US, it never has. In fact it goes against every principle.

 

Put it this way..If you were offered a 2million mortgage, would you take it if you couldn't afford it? If you did you have to ask yourself why.

 

But that isn't the situation.

 

These people budgeted for their property, made enquiries and found mortgage providers who's costs they could afford to pay. They weren't to know the promises made to them were based on a fraud, that the whole system would come tumbling down and they would be unable to find the rates they previously had for the property they bought. They are the victims. Maybe a little gullible, but not gullible enough to justify bearing the responsibility for the fraud committed elsewhere.

[mj.scuba]

There is an interesting article in Rolling Stone this week. It is about the fraud at the heart of the Financial crisis. The huge Ponzi scheme set up in Wall Street that caused the global recession when it all came tumbling down. The guilty got bail outs with public money. The victims in the US, those losing their homes portrayed as being guilty.

 

 

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/232611

 

This system stinks like a pile of dog poo.

 

Ponzi Scheme? The only guy that was found to be running a Ponzi Scheme was Bernie Madoff, and he wasn't bailed out, he was banged up! Sir Alan Stanford might disagree with your assessmet too.

[Sierra]

Wildcat my friend, bash away. One reason I was attracted to this forum was that I really, really wanted to know what the ordinary person thought of America. Yes, really. Sometimes it's infuriating, sometimes the person has bias, sometimes it's all a** backwards as we say, but mostly? It's interesting and enlightening.

 

I read the article, and I'd like to add my own slant on things, because I live here in Foreclosure Land.

 

But that isn't the situation.

 

These people budgeted for their property, made enquiries and found mortgage providers who's costs they could afford to pay. They weren't to know the promises made to them were based on a fraud, that the whole system would come tumbling down and they would be unable to find the rates they previously had for the property they bought. They are the victims. Maybe a little gullible, but not gullible enough to justify bearing the responsibility for the fraud committed elsewhere.

 

In most cases, they did NOT. Sorry, but they didn't. They wouldn't know a point on a loan from a hole in the ground. A lot didn't even speak english. Banks were forced to lower and broaden their lending standards so that people who would NEVER have been given a mortgage 10 years ago, got one. Or two, or even three. Most of them had terrible credit, which is how they ended up with a sub-prime mortgage to begin with. They put nothing down, and sometimes got 125% of the appraised value of the property. The extra money went to purchase jet skis, boats, furniture, cars, swimming pools, fancy improvements and vacations. In many cases when they are evicted (a looong, drawn out process) they wreck the joint first. Bash holes in the sheetrock, scratch the granite countertops, graffiti up hardwood floors, steal copper wiring, appliances, and brass bathroom fixtures, smash toilets with a hammer, it's disgusting. They got to live in a nice place for a couple years, and went it all went south, they just up and leave and go rent somewhere else. And there is a huge glut of rental homes on the market just now! Landlords are offering all kinds of incentives.

 

I have neighbors who refinanced their house and sucked out the equity. Who knows what they spent it on except to say that ALL of them are really well dressed and driving some mighty nice cars. They haven't made a house payment in nearly TWO YEARS, and are still living in the property. Why? The bank has so many foreclosures on their books they are swamped. I suppose they'll get around to them eventually. In the meantime, their 16 year old son just got one of these. http://carsbikesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500.jpg

 

I think we can safely assume where their priorities lie. The insurance alone for a teen male to drive one of those is unbelievable. Like the GDP of a small country. How can they afford it? My son is beside himself with envy, and I don't blame him.

 

With so much demand for homes, because banks were giving loans to anybody, the appraised value of property shot into the stratosphere. As a result, banks began to get very, uh...shall we say creative with their financing? "Liar" loans (where the person doesn't have to prove their stated income, or even be employed for that matter), piggyback loans, wraparound loans, some I've never even heard of. We refinanced our mortgage to a shorter term, and many of the loans we were offered were so damn convoluted, we couldn't make sense of them!

 

Mostly the people who suffering now are the ones who put money down and have seen all their equity disappear, or those who have lost their jobs because compnies are downsizing. They're underwater on the homes, and sometimes the only way out is for them to file bankruptcy. It's not such a big shame, believe me. I know of a couple who refinanced the hell out of their home while it was at the peak of the market. They took the money and paid CASH for a house on Vashon Island in Washington state, on the water.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vashon,_Washington

 

It's gorgeous!

 

They made a few months worth of payments on their California home hoping to sell it, and when the value dropped like a stone, they let the bank foreclose. They have never repaid ANY of the money they signed a promissary note for, and they have a beautiful new home, all paid for. How is that honest?! My husband wants to accept invite to visit, but I'm afraid I'll vomit all over them.

 

The pictures they send sure are nice though.

 

You know that old saying by W.C. Fields? "You can't cheat an honest man?" Well, it's true. Sure, the banks in some cases lied and misled people, and for that, heads should roll! But mostly the only ones who fell for it were the greedy and the totally uninformed who were led like lambs to the slaughter. Sadly, we yanks are sorely lacking in compassion for our own. We figure the greedy had it coming and the uninformed should have taken the time to read what the hell they were signing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you that more than a few people should be behind bars for their roles in this and the bailout money absolutely went to the wrong people! Doesn't it always? Unfortunately, we're all paying for it now and will probably be paying for years to come.

 

The mistake people make is believing everything they're told. They need to always remember that NO bank or financial institution has their best interests at heart!

 

TV shows around here have gone from this.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_This_House

 

To this.

 

http://www.wetv.com/downsized/

[Alien]

But that isn't the situation.

 

These people budgeted for their property, made enquiries and found mortgage providers who's costs they could afford to pay. They weren't to know the promises made to them were based on a fraud, that the whole system would come tumbling down and they would be unable to find the rates they previously had for the property they bought. They are the victims. Maybe a little gullible, but not gullible enough to justify bearing the responsibility for the fraud committed elsewhere.

 

Yes it is the situation...because the situation keeps arising whether sub prime, pension rip offs, insurance rip off's..It's as if when ever something like this happens we all stand aghast and are really that something like this could happen....well duh! It happens because we let it happen, sure we give them a slap on the wrist and a massive bail out...again.

 

Bail out a bank that's just screwed you blind?

 

If we keep voting in people who allow others to ride rough shot over the economy time and time again then really we don't have much of a case to whine when the s**t hits the fan. People power doesn't exist, you may believe the politicians when they say it does but all it gets you is a highly manicured Ken and Barbie that fronts a machine that's designed to screw every penny from your wallet with the exception of a few quid to make you feel how good a citizen you are. The ideal of 'I would like more' and work towards that goal is now lost...the new ideal is "I need" "I want" " I must have" at any cost even at the cost of your own dignity or self respect, because it's "far more shameful to owe than steal" and that's how far we've progressed.

 

I'm not arguing against you I'm arguing that people get what they vote for too.