The Tory ministers of the 80's should be put on trial for the Ridley plan.

[Obelix]

He was indeed convicted of a crime.

 

So he commited one....

 

I didn't commit a crime - and I got coshed by your mob as well.

[Tony]

He was convicted

... by a jury.

 

Something not afforded to the people that he assaulted.

[alchresearch]

So he commited one....

 

I didn't commit a crime - and I got coshed by your mob as well.

 

The coach drivers weren't miners and they had to wear crash helmets and were bricked and threatened. Wasn't a coach company threatened with arson for driving miners to work?

[Wildcat]

So you think you are right because you claim to be an authority?

 

Logical fallacy number one

 

You think you are right because you attack the poster and not the arguemnt

 

Logical fallacy number two

 

You think that making the base statement that cannot be challenged helps?

 

Logical fallacy three.

 

Appeal to emotion and pity

 

Logical fallacy number four.

 

Strawman argument about claims I never made - logical fallacy number five.

 

Want to try again? I never made any statement about the best way to preserve an industry - and my father was never as you so charming say, a scab.

 

1. He was a member of NACODS, until the screwed up his membership. He owed the NUM jack squat.

2. When he went to work it was his actions and the rest of the overmen that kept the colleriy safe to work and it did work until the mid 1990's

3. The first colleries closed after the strike were not from exhaustion or geology, or unprofitability - they were unsafe to work as the NUM stopped NACODS from keeping them safe. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

Now, if you don't mind I'll leave you to wallow in another turdspurt of self righteous self abasing pity, and get on with my work. Something half of Sheffield it seems treats as an alien concept.

 

Point 1. Claiming to be an authority in and of itself is meaningless, however if they are an authority it does add weight to their arguments, which is all Mr Prime has claimed.

 

Point 2. Perhaps you should recheck what you have said, he is attacking the ideas you have promoted not you personally.

 

Point 3. It has been you that has consistently made the appeal to pity, citing your own personal circumstances during the strike as if they have a bearing on the wider issue of the Ridley plan and the Tory plans to destroy communities.

 

Point 4. You do appear to have recommended scabbing, you have spent most of this thread defending them. There is no Strawman.

[Wildcat]

... by a jury.

 

Something not afforded to the people that he assaulted.

 

Yes by a Jury in rural Tory Hertfordshire miles away in a totally different place to where the offence was supposedly committed.

 

The fabrications of assaults in the media were exposed as such at the time, why he wasn't convicted of assaulting anyone.

 

He got 3 years for saying a site building was not fit for burning, under a nineteenth century law resurrected for the purpose.

 

Keep on lying as much as you want about the case, it only makes you look a fool.

[Wildcat]

The coach drivers weren't miners and they had to wear crash helmets and were bricked and threatened. Wasn't a coach company threatened with arson for driving miners to work?

 

What has this got to do with

 

A) Des Warren? or B) the Ridley plan?

 

Nothing.

 

The conduct of the dispute in some cases by miners defending their livelihoods was over the top and counterproductive. No one has disputed this. It is not relevant to the debate and yet you and others keep bringing it up like it has some relevance.

 

Maybe you could explain how the conduct of a few miners during a dispute in which they were defending their communities justifies the trashing of an industry and communities out of revenge in a plan conceived before any of these actions occurred? Something that has cost us billions of pounds?

[Tony]

Convicted by

a Jury

[Obelix]

The coach drivers weren't miners and they had to wear crash helmets and were bricked and threatened. Wasn't a coach company threatened with arson for driving miners to work?

 

There was a taxi driver murdered in Wales when two of those honourable bastions of the miners dropped a concrete block on him.

 

his "crime"? Driving a miner to work.

[Obelix]

Point 1. Claiming to be an authority in and of itself is meaningless, however if they are an authority it does add weight to their arguments, which is all Mr Prime has claimed.

 

Point 2. Perhaps you should recheck what you have said, he is attacking the ideas you have promoted not you personally.

 

Point 3. It has been you that has consistently made the appeal to pity, citing your own personal circumstances during the strike as if they have a bearing on the wider issue of the Ridley plan and the Tory plans to destroy communities.

 

Point 4. You do appear to have recommended scabbing, you have spent most of this thread defending them. There is no Strawman.

 

Prime is not an authority when his arguments have been shown to be lacking substance and mistake of fact.

 

The rest of it is your usual blindserving acceptance of the idea you had a god given, or rather union given right to work in the most unprofitable industry we had. You dress it up with words like solidarity, with words like community, and attack others with words like scab, but the end result is the collier industry was a dead duck and was dragging this country down like a millstone. It had to shape up and modernise and become profitable, or it had to go.

 

When the NUM decided that it would economise and modernise, the end result was inevitable. The NUM and the intransigence of the miners, not the ridley plan were the reasons for the death of the collieries - and on that you can hang a phD as I did.

[upinwath]

Why is it not worth a light? Is this because you are intimidated by educated people? I guess all the graduates in the country should halt their careers and start shelf stacking.

 

As I mentioned I lived through it too albeit as a kid but I watched the news and there were miners living on our street, they were my parents friends. The fact you have had this dimwitted reaction only damages your 'argument'. At the end of the day I have studied it from all angles for years, yes that includes reading the anti strike press and books. I have read MacGregors book several times and you can't get much worse than that. Have you ever read anything on the strike that doesn't chime with your views? Thought not.

 

I have demolished all your lazy tabloid regurgitations but perhaps you can answer my question as to how an NUM victory would have made the UK communist. Can you? Thought not.

 

Not intimidated. More bored by know it alls who know sod all.

 

I'm far from a tabloid reader. In fact I can't stand the daft rags. (Do know it alls realise why they are called 'rags'?) They print what will sell, not the news.

Books printed by clearly biased persons will tell you little unless you do a lot more than read them. Same goes for the left wing commentary at the time.

Both were printing their own version of the truth and not much of what was really going on.

As for you living through the strike. I lived around and drank with the blokes.

I went past Wath and Manvers main every night at weekends and took the pickets beer. That teaches you a lot more about the blokes and what they were thinking than reading a book ever will. Did you do any research like that? Thought not.

One thing I can tell you for sure is they were hardly likely to tell the truth of their situation and feelings about it so some snotty, loud mouthed kid.

 

Your degree on the strike is so much bog roll unless you did it properly and that means being there and getting the situation worked out as it was at the time. Some crappy idea worked out from a couple of books and a lot of guess work isn't worth a lot.

Must watch the news more often. There were WMD in Iraq you know. I saw it on the BBC.