The Tory ministers of the 80's should be put on trial for the Ridley plan.

[upinwath]

 

Bog roll? If you think you know more than a professor from Manchester University feel free,

 

140,000 men did not strike because say 5000 militants terrorised them. That defies mathematics before we get onto anything else.

 

In this case, yes. I was there and with the miners. I know what they did and why they did it. Not from the government or union side but from the people who were in the middle.

 

The guys didn't strike because of Scargill's dogs but a lot stayed out because of them.

 

The East German armed forces managed about 180,000 men along with the police.

They kept 16.7 million people in line.

Manchester professors may know the numbers but they clearly have no understanding of how bullies work. They defy maths as well.

[Tony]

Bog roll? If you think you know more than a professor from Manchester University feel free, I'm guessing you don't. [/b]

Ah, the certainty of academia trumps everything eh?

 

I read only yesterday that the only graduate worth less in the job market than one with a media studies degree is a woman with a politics degree, but I'm sure that it was a mistake.

 

As I explained I have read more than a couple of books, I have read all of the books including Macgregors and 'Scargill the Stalinist?", another anti strike book. However feel free to ignore sections of information that don't fit in with your agenda, boringly predictable.?[/b]

Books. Lots of lovely books. Lots of lovely opinion. Lots of first hand accounts.

 

But you weren't actually there though... were you?

[Wildcat]

In this case, yes. I was there and with the miners. I know what they did and why they did it. Not from the government or union side but from the people who were in the middle.

 

The guys didn't strike because of Scargill's dogs but a lot stayed out because of them.

 

The East German armed forces managed about 180,000 men along with the police.

They kept 16.7 million people in line.

Manchester professors may know the numbers but they clearly have no understanding of how bullies work. They defy maths as well.

 

If you are observing that at the end of the miner's strike there were strong feelings and animosity between groups of workers, then what you are saying is obvious. It does however have nothing to do with the claim you originally made.

 

Are you really suggesting Scargill had set up a Stasi like secret police force? The only Stasi like activity going on was the involvement of MI6 and the army.

[Wildcat]

Ah, the certainty of academia trumps everything eh?

 

I read only yesterday that the only graduate worth less in the job market than one with a media studies degree is a woman with a politics degree, but I'm sure that it was a mistake.

 

 

Books. Lots of lovely books. Lots of lovely opinion. Lots of first hand accounts.

 

But you weren't actually there though... were you?

 

He has already said he lived through it as a kid.

 

Rarely have I seen such a sanctimoniously delivered appeal to ignorance.

[Tony]

When will we hear details of the timings of the first hearing (from those who think people should be 'brought to justice'?)

 

Is this yet another 'mouthwash' thread?

Jeepers, more multi-million pound compensation claims caused by the last government. Is mouthwashing like waterboarding?

[upinwath]

If you are observing that at the end of the miner's strike there were strong feelings and animosity between groups of workers, then what you are saying is obvious. It does however have nothing to do with the claim you originally made.

 

Are you really suggesting Scargill had set up a Stasi like secret police force? The only Stasi like activity going on was the involvement of MI6 and the army.

 

I claim Scargill was intent on setting up an ultra left government in the UK.

The miners were just poor sods used in his attempt to overthrow an elected government in pursuit of that goal.

 

I mentioned the East German situation because our learned prof has not given the slightest thought to the bully factor. profs tend to think logically. The rest of the world tends not to so fine theories based on reading books designed to make cash for the author are not much real use.

 

Scargill did have his rabid dogs out there intimidating people.

If not, would you be kind enough to explain why returning miners felt the need to hide in car boots to get to work?

[upinwath]

He has already said he lived through it as a kid.

 

Rarely have I seen such a sanctimoniously delivered appeal to ignorance.

 

So how many miners in fear of their safely would talk about their wish to return to work and what real difficulties they faced with a snotty know it all kid?

 

None if they had a brain.

[Mr Prime]

Ah, the certainty of academia trumps everything eh?

 

I read only yesterday that the only graduate worth less in the job market than one with a media studies degree is a woman with a politics degree, but I'm sure that it was a mistake.

 

 

Books. Lots of lovely books. Lots of lovely opinion. Lots of first hand accounts.

 

But you weren't actually there though... were you?

 

Let's keep it simple shall we? A load of tabloidisms have been spouted. I have contradicted them pointing out that:

 

a) I have studied this in depth for years and the truth is more banal than fiction, I know it inside out. That does not make me automatically right but I am far more knowledgeable about it which leads to b).

 

b) I am yet to see any references to any evidence to back up the tabloidisms. I on the other hand gave a list of facts way back that cannot be contradicted because they are all from triple checked sources.

 

So to cap it all, does anyone on here think a soldier from WW2 knows more about the war than a historian of that war? Experience is great but an overall analysis from all angles away from emotional hysteria is what is required to understand something.

 

I know you all know that too and are just trying to be clever zzz. That also explains why upinwath is getting personal. The middle aged man full of certainty is upset that a whippersnapper with far more than his o level in woodwork is telling him how it actually is.

[Mr Prime]

I claim Scargill was intent on setting up an ultra left government in the UK.

The miners were just poor sods used in his attempt to overthrow an elected government in pursuit of that goal.

 

I mentioned the East German situation because our learned prof has not given the slightest thought to the bully factor. profs tend to think logically. The rest of the world tends not to so fine theories based on reading books designed to make cash for the author are not much real use.

 

Scargill did have his rabid dogs out there intimidating people.

If not, would you be kind enough to explain why returning miners felt the need to hide in car boots to get to work?

 

Fishwive gossip unless you can procure a statement from El Presidente detailing this? Or perhaps from someone on the NUM executive at the time?

 

Of course scabs hid in cars for fear of a beating. So what? It's human nature to hate traitors and the majority did not need instructions from Scargill. This is just your conspiracy theorist mind, no real evidence just a feeling.

 

You also forget that a lot of ex miners are still loyal to Scargill and regret nothing, the majority from what I can tell. Why not go into The Fox pub in Hatfield and tell the landlord and regulars what you think? Why not watch the documentaries of recent years interviewing ex miners about the strike? Yes scabs were interviewed too and guess what?

 

I was at the Barnsley commemoration march and rally in 2004. Thousands of ex miners, none of whom agreed with you, funny that.

[Conrod]

Of course scabs hid in cars for fear of a beating. So what? It's human nature to hate traitors and the majority did not need instructions from Scargill. .

If they did not want to strike, but preferred to work for a living, why are they traitors. Can't you see that not everybody wanted their own lives to be controlled by a militant left wing union?

You seem to condone violence against honest working men.

 

You also forget that a lot of ex miners are still loyal to Scargill and regret nothing, .

Not the brightest then, are they?