The Tory ministers of the 80's should be put on trial for the Ridley plan.

[Mr Prime]

When you (yet again) use the word 'scabs', do you realise that you mean working men? Those who would rather put in an honest day's work than strike?

 

 

What a load of Pery Sugden cliches, "an honest days work"! Get real. It was the desire to go on doing a lot more honest days and years work that they struck as well you know. How can you even come out with that rubbish at this stage in the debate?

[Mr Prime]

That is where our esteemed "I've done a paper" Mr Prime is cocking up.

You need to get inside Scargill's mind to know what he was really about.

Books have this nasty flaw of being written by the author and political authors want their truth to be told.

The facts are easy to get hold of; Thoughts and ideals are not quite so easy.

Without understanding the latter any thesis is so much toilet paper.

 

Mr Prime. You really will have to get a basic understanding of the people you're dealing with here. Your books and media of the time are all telling their version of a story. None will tell the truth.

Go back to the strike and stand in on a few of Scargill's speeches so you can see what he was really like.

I met the guy in person and listened to several rants at the time. I saw him for the extremist bully boy he really was. His speeches were very much in the style you would expect from Nick Griffin now.

 

The TV stuff was one thing. His stuff in meetings was quite another. You need to find out more about that side of Scargill before you write your next piece.

By the way. Have you ever interviewed the leaders of today's NUM?

I had a couple of private conversations a few years ago. Interesting to say the least. You may find Scargill isn't a very popular lad over there.

 

No matter what anyone does it will never be enough in your eyes. Yes I have seen much footage and read transcripts of his strike speeches. Ah but did I see secret ones that you strangely know about despite not being a miner and not involved in the strike? So in short any modern historian, unless he possesses a time machine is talking crap? Best tell Andrew Marr, Anthony Beevors and all the other historians producing material then, most were not around during the events they write about.

 

As I have pointed out, most biased media from then echoes you! I represent the counterblast with a bit of fact checking re communist party and who started the strike. However all serious sources agree with my post 56, simple as. Your stories in your initial post are tabloidisms, not reflected in serious accounts. We can argue all day about getting inside the minds but you have not got the basics right yet. Let me repeat, the communists tried to stop the strike and rank and filers at a moderate pit started it, not the evil master of puppets.

 

There are 2 biographies of Scargill, one balanced by Michael Crick and one very negative by Paul Routledge. There is no hero worshipping bio of him and Scargill himself has not written a book about the strike or his life. The only pro strike books written are by Dave Douglass, himeslf an ex miner and NUM rep in Hatfield, and other ex miners. They provide much in thoughts and ideals. No scabs have written anything for obvious reasons. So in short there is a shortage of 'glorious strike' books and much serious and analytical stuff to draw serious opinions from as I have.

[Tony]

scabs

Do you realise how cretinous you sound?

 

You are no more a professor than I'm on the Russian Mars programme.

[upinwath]

No matter what anyone does it will never be enough in your eyes. Yes I have seen much footage and read transcripts of his strike speeches. Ah but did I see secret ones that you strangely know about despite not being a miner and not involved in the strike? .

 

When losing an argument make things up and suggests lies from your opponent.

You don't work for the CIA do you?

 

Nothing secret about the meetings and anyone could go. I got invited by miners on the picket lines I was feeding beer to. I was interested enough to see what was happening to go to a few. Scargill was at two of them.

No checking communist party ID cards at the door or anything.

What you need to do is talk to people that went to meetings like that and, while you're at it, speak to the leadership of the NUM as it is now.

The made for TV speeches were just a political tool. You should learn that much from the wikileaks site this last week. What politicians say in public is what they want people to hear.

 

I'm not saying nothing will be good enough. What will do the job is proper research. So far you've totally failed. Send your degree back and do it again.

[Wildcat]

Do you realise how cretinous you sound?

 

You are no more a professor than I'm on the Russian Mars programme.

 

I would indeed expect one of Russia's space monkeys to post more sense than you have on this thread.

[Wildcat]

When losing an argument make things up and suggests lies from your opponent.

You don't work for the CIA do you?

 

Nothing secret about the meetings and anyone could go. I got invited by miners on the picket lines I was feeding beer to. I was interested enough to see what was happening to go to a few. Scargill was at two of them.

No checking communist party ID cards at the door or anything.

What you need to do is talk to people that went to meetings like that and, while you're at it, speak to the leadership of the NUM as it is now.

The made for TV speeches were just a political tool. You should learn that much from the wikileaks site this last week. What politicians say in public is what they want people to hear.

 

I'm not saying nothing will be good enough. What will do the job is proper research. So far you've totally failed. Send your degree back and do it again.

 

I have spoken to many ex-miners and they would all laugh at the paranoid nonsense you have come out with on this thread.

[Wildcat]

When you (yet again) use the word 'scabs', do you realise that you mean working men? Those who would rather put in an honest day's work than strike?

 

Hardly.

I am curious though - you are a rather keen supporter of militant unions and strike action - you use the word 'scab' at every opportunity which clearly reveals a bitter attitude you have towards people who did not want to strike.

 

Were you a miner? Have you worked in any of the heavy manufacturing industries that suffered inthe 90s?

Indeed, have you worked/do you work at all?

 

I avoided using the word initially but Upinwath started using the word in post 52 and then Obelix convinced me use of the word was appropriate, by his attitude.

 

Someone that would backstab their workmates in a dispute like the miner's strike truly is lowest of the low.

 

After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab. A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles. When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and Angels weep in Heaven, and the Devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out

[Mr Prime]

Do you realise how cretinous you sound?

 

You are no more a professor than I'm on the Russian Mars programme.

 

I never claimed to be a professor! I had my work examined by a professor obviously.

 

As for scab I suggest you look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary.

 

I may sound cretinous to you but you sound cretinous to me. C'est la vie.

[Mr Prime]

When losing an argument make things up and suggests lies from your opponent.

You don't work for the CIA do you?

 

Nothing secret about the meetings and anyone could go. I got invited by miners on the picket lines I was feeding beer to. I was interested enough to see what was happening to go to a few. Scargill was at two of them.

No checking communist party ID cards at the door or anything.

What you need to do is talk to people that went to meetings like that and, while you're at it, speak to the leadership of the NUM as it is now.

The made for TV speeches were just a political tool. You should learn that much from the wikileaks site this last week. What politicians say in public is what they want people to hear.

 

I'm not saying nothing will be good enough. What will do the job is proper research. So far you've totally failed. Send your degree back and do it again.

 

What makes you think I am losing the argument? My position is that there are facts e.g. the role of the coms/who started the strike, which you got wrong. Everything else is opinion based on personal judgement. We have different personal judgements. Fine, however my judgements are based on cross referencing many sources first so the simple basics are correct to begin with. You are the equivalent of the bloke in a pub dispensing legal or plumbing advice. A little bit of information is a dangerous thing. As I said, a professor's marking means more to me than a tap room philosopher.

 

You seem to think I have spoken to no miners, apart from several of my neighbours and parents friend being miners whom I still know I did speak to 'primary sources' thanks. The documentaries are full of them too, from both sides.

 

I know El Presidente is in dispute with the current NUM leadership, so what? I am unaware of his current address too, so what? I studied the strike, I am not a King Arthur obsessive or I'd be an SLP member.

[upinwath]

My judgements are based on meeting Scargill and listening to his off record rants. That tells you a lot more than some book written for cash or political gain.

 

By the way plastic prof, I don't drink

 

You're right about one thing, a little knowledge is dangerous. In fact there is only one thing worse. A semi informed but very sure of himself bloke who won't admit he needs to look further to get at the truth.

Other problems are often those people who know the truth because it fits what they want to be the truth.

How does that sound wildcat?