Wikileaks under dos attack

[Phanerothyme]

Here endeth the discussion.

[Harleyman]

But they don't always refuse do they? See My Lai.

 

I served a year in Vietnam. My unit didn't go around massacring women and children. I cant speak for the morons who obeyed Calley and shot those civliians. From what little I know that particular unit suffered losses in an action against the VC prior to that and they were out for payback

 

While Mai Lai is fact there is more BS, lies and distortions about the Vietnam war than any other war in history.

 

I blame Hollywood and crap movies like Apocolypse Now and Platoon for much of this.

[TeaFan]

Here endeth the discussion.

 

Careful Phan, you sound dangerously close to agreeing with me

[Harleyman]

The US army and its government isn't as clean as you'd like to think it is. From Wikipedia - ''In late 1969, Thompson was summoned to Washington DC and appeared before a special closed hearing of the House Armed Services Committee. There, he was sharply criticized by Congressmen, in particular Chairman Mendel Rivers (D-SC), who were anxious to play down allegations of a massacre by American troops. Rivers publicly stated that he felt Thompson was the only soldier at My Lai who should be punished (for turning his weapons on fellow American troops) and unsuccessfully attempted to have him court-martialed. As word of his actions became publicly known, Thompson started receiving hate mail, death threats and mutilated animals on his doorstep.[1]''

 

 

Well if not squeaky clean you're in a world of doo doo aint ya squire, because that's the army that does the bulk of the fighting and suffers the greates losses in the world's trouble spots.

 

Maybe you'd put more faith in the Russian army or the Chinese People's army?

[andygardener]

I think I have a much lesser right to see them than US citizens. I think US citizens have an absolute right to see them.

 

Don't make me laugh about deaths. How many civilian deaths in Iraq, caused by US foreign policy based on greed? You think a few potential deaths of US agents on top of the extant death toll really matters? Hundreds of thousands killed for profits and you whine about the safety of people employed to carry that out? <REMOVED>

 

I'll try explaining this to you once, though I won't hold my breath since you're not the sharpest tool in the box: the US government purports to operate representative government, i.e. the electorate vote for people who are then meant to represent them, both at home and abroad. If those people then lie to or keep significant information from the electorate or employ people to do the same, then it is not truly representative democracy. The panic at the top is exposing just what a sham this supposed representation is.

 

I, on the other hand (and most US citizens, more to the point) am not paid by and put in a position of power by people on the promise or understanding that I will represent them. Hence my correspondence is not in the public interest. If I was, it would be. Understand?

 

Aside from the fact that diplomacy requires as a prerequisit discretion to allow it to opperate sucessfully and your proposal of complete transparency in all matters render diplomacy impossible, lets look at what you are actually saying. That all politicians and civil servants cannot communicate privately between themselves and that by wishing to they are breaking with the nature of democratic representation and public service? How do you come up with such rot?

 

This infantile "I demand to know everything otherwise I'm not being truely represented" attitude demonstrates not just a lack of awareness of how our countries get by in a complex and dangerous world but a massively inflated sense of self importance. At what point did the US or any other democratic government claim that they would release classified documents to every tom dick and harry? Never. So what on earth makes you think that by failing to do so they are breaking your percieved "democratic promise"? Only an idiot would believe they have some "democratic right" to see classified documents above their clearance level.

[JFKvsNixon]

I served a year in Vietnam. My unit didn't go around massacring women and children. I cant speak for the morons who obeyed Calley and shot those civliians. From what little I know that particular unit suffered losses in an action against the VC prior to that and they were out for payback

 

While Mai Lai is fact there is more BS, lies and distortions about the Vietnam war than any other war in history.

 

I blame Hollywood and crap movies like Apocolypse Now and Platoon for much of this.

 

Oliver Stone fought in Vietnam earning a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart with an Oak Leaf Cluster, it is said that Stone wrote Platoon based on his own experiences.

[TeaFan]

Aside from the fact that diplomacy requires as a prerequisit discretion to allow it to opperate sucessfully and your proposal of complete transparency in all matters render diplomacy impossible, lets look at what you are actually saying. That all politicians and civil servants cannot communicate privately between themselves and that by wishing to they are breaking with the nature of democratic representation and public service? How do you come up with such rot?

 

This infantile "I demand to know everything otherwise I'm not being truely represented" attitude demonstrates not just a lack of awareness of how our countries get by in a complex and dangerous world but a massively inflated sense of self importance. At what point did the US or any other democratic government claim that they would release classified documents to every tom dick and harry? Never. So what on earth makes you think that by failing to do so they are breaking your percieved "democratic promise"? Only an idiot would believe they have some "democratic right" to see classified documents above their clearance level.

 

Just classic :hihi:

 

I'll leave you wondering why for a few weeks

[Harleyman]

Oliver Stone fought in Vietnam earning a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart with an Oak Leaf Cluster, it is said that Stone wrote Platoon based on his own experiences.

 

Sorrry that's a load of rubbish. He may have fought in Vietnam but a lot of it was made up. He had to put a story together and got carried away with his imagination. All that film did was portray the army as a bunch of dope heads and psychotics. Further, it dishonored and insulted the one million odd men who fought in that war including the 58,000 who died

 

I was a Marine but will defend the Army against distortions by the likes of Oliver Stone and Stanley Kubrik. This kind of stuff they turned out was a reflection on all of us

[Phanerothyme]

Careful Phan, you sound dangerously close to agreeing with me

No I'm despairing at your post. [it was a prediction, not an endorsement]

 

 

"whining"?

 

<REMOVED>

 

"you're not the sharpest tool in the box".

 

I'm bored of it. If you can't sharpen your style to something less odious, then I'm not going to bother reading it.

 

It's like you just came in from the pub, reeking of ale, and proceded to tell everyone what's what, and just like listening to <REMOVED>, it bores me stupid and annoys me at the same time.

 

And what's more, here, for once, is an interesting and serious topic where some of us can sound out our own beliefs and opinions against those who would disagree with us.

 

But no, let's post insulting drivel at each other because it's so much more rewarding.

 

Please carry on.

[andygardener]

Just classic :hihi:

 

I'll leave you wondering why for a few weeks

 

So you couldn't answer the substantive points then?

 

No great surprise from an individual that believes it's sustainable to conduct confidential diplomatic talks with other governments then immediately publish a transcript of the talks in the Guardian and hope the other governments will keep on dealing with us.