Israel - A right/left issue?

[flamingjimmy]

Interesting point about empathy, I've never thought about it quite like that.

 

Equally I suppose though those on the right could be argued to have empathy with Israel and the Jews? I do think however it is alot easier to have empathy with someone who looks like you, dresses like you and has a similar lifestyle?

I agree but thought that kind of went without saying.

 

I also feel that there is also a 'anti Muslim' feeling coming from many on the right (Daily Mail, EDL, BNP) ,so perhaps support for Israel is a natural extension of this?

Definitely, there is a large amount of 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' thinking from the racists.

[spooky3]

Is it a right / left issue?

 

Do you believe that Ireland belongs to the Irish, Scotland to the Scots? Then surely Israel belongs to the Jews.

 

BTW i'm English.

[Wildcat]

Is it a right / left issue?

 

Do you believe that Ireland belongs to the Irish, Scotland to the Scots? Then surely Israel belongs to the Jews.

 

BTW i'm English.

 

There are less than 6 million Jews in Israel. There are around 2 million non-jews in Israel and more than 4 million refugees from Israel, with a protected right of return under UN resolution 194. By my count that makes for a non-Jewish Israeli majority.

[Wildcat]

Ignoring the rights or wrongs of the Middle East issues, and dealing purely with the OP's question, my political views are probably to the left of a lot of posters on this forum, but I am a firm supporter of Israel's right to exist peacefully with it's neighbours, and it's right to defend itself.

 

For what it is worth I think the problems stem from some in the Middle East not being prepared to accept Israel's right to exist - I don't know if that makes me unusual among left leaners but I wouldn't be surprised

 

I don't think it makes you unusual at all, the issue is how the Palestinian situation and the right of return of the refugees should be settled. The SWP I believe insists on a one state Palestinian solution, rather foolishly in my opinion. Just about everyone else left and right believe a two state solution is the only solution that could work.

 

Where differences lie is in who should be making concessions and what those concessions should be. Those on the right tend to have a very selective understanding of what is going on and overlook Israel's role in undermining peace agreements by their support for continued expansion and settlement of territory not its own. The right are not unique in this, and not all on the right are so selective in their understanding of the situation.

[Mr Prime]

Is it a right / left issue?

 

Do you believe that Ireland belongs to the Irish, Scotland to the Scots? Then surely Israel belongs to the Jews.

 

BTW i'm English.

 

Not if the nation was invented in 1948. And no, some fairy story does not justify it either.

[Lady Star]

In America there is the concept of the 'self hating Jew', or a Jew who is not Zionist... Those who use the term tend to be more right wing than the self hating Jews they ridicule... You also have to consider the Jews who 'returned' to Israel after the holocaust had no concept that the UK and US armies had cleared the towns and villages they were settled in... They didn't know anyone had been there in recent times... Now Palastine behaves like a jack russell snapping at the rotweiller of Israel's heels, and sometimes they get bit... The two will never live together in peace, but the Israelis have more powerful support/friends...

[spooky3]

Not if the nation was invented in 1948. And no, some fairy story does not justify it either.

 

After almost two millennia of existence of the Jewish diaspora without its national state, the Zionist movement was founded in the late 19th century by ...

 

It existed before (even the Bible states it... written in about 400 AD), the Zionist movement was formed in the 19th century, then Israel reclaimed in 1948...

 

 

So, by your thinking, because the Irish are now virtually all Christians (Roman Catholic) and not actually Celt's, then their claim is invalid too?

[Wildcat]

In America there is the concept of the 'self hating Jew', or a Jew who is not Zionist... Those who use the term tend to be more right wing than the self hating Jews they ridicule... You also have to consider the Jews who 'returned' to Israel after the holocaust had no concept that the UK and US armies had cleared the towns and villages they were settled in... They didn't know anyone had been there in recent times... Now Palastine behaves like a jack russell snapping at the rotweiller of Israel's heels, and sometimes they get bit... The two will never live together in peace, but the Israelis have more powerful support/friends...

 

If there is a criticism to be made of the UK it was its non-intervention in a brutal civil war and its double dealings with Jordan. The US so far as I am aware never intervened directly although the Jewish militias were armed largely from private money raised in the United States.

[Wildcat]

It existed before (even the Bible states it... written in about 400 AD), the Zionist movement was formed in the 19th century, then Israel reclaimed in 1948...

 

So, by your thinking, because the Irish are now virtually all Christians (Roman Catholic) and not actually Celt's, then their claim is invalid too?

 

If you are claiming Countries by religious origins then Israel could just as easily be claimed by any Judeo-Christian group.

 

The fact of the matter is that in 1918 Jews were a small minority, by 1947 about half the population was Jewish. Jews dominated the country after 1948 because the vast majority of the non-Jewish population fled the Zionist militias terror campaigns.

[LordChaverly]

You also have to consider the Jews who 'returned' to Israel after the holocaust had no concept that the UK and US armies had cleared the towns and villages they were settled in... They didn't know anyone had been there in recent times... ..

 

This is absolute nonsense. How can you believe such rubbish?