Israel - A right/left issue?

[spooky3]

If you are claiming Countries by religious origins then Israel could just as easily be claimed by any Judeo-Christian group.

 

The fact of the matter is that in 1918 Jews were a small minority, by 1947 about half the population was Jewish. Jews dominated the country after 1948 because the vast majority of the non-Jewish population fled the Zionist militias terror campaigns.

 

As has happened in many many territorial disputes, including recent ones...

 

 

At the end of the day, do you think that Israel has no claim to exist?

[Jason Bourne]

It existed before (even the Bible states it... written in about 400 AD), the Zionist movement was formed in the 19th century, then Israel reclaimed in 1948...

 

There may have been a nation called Israel in the Middle East a couple of thousand years ago, but NONE of the ancestors of the modern-day Israelis lived there.

 

Should modern-day Israelis have a 'right' to live on land where the Palestinians have been living for hundreds of years?

[Jason Bourne]

For what it is worth I think the problems stem from some in the Middle East not being prepared to accept Israel's right to exist - I don't know if that makes me unusual among left leaners but I wouldn't be surprised

 

That's what a lot of people think, but given Israel's refusal to honour its own commitments to the 1993 Olso Peace Accord (the Israelis shouldn't be building illegal 'settlements' on Palestinian land), many often wonder if in fact it's the Israelis who aren't prepared to recognise Palestine's right to exist.

[Wildcat]

As has happened in many many territorial disputes, including recent ones...

 

 

At the end of the day, do you think that Israel has no claim to exist?

 

As I have said earlier, I favour a 2 state solution. An Israeli state and a viable Palestinian state..... ie one that has a sea port and is not divided up by settlements and roadways isolating Palestinian communities from one another.

[Mr Prime]

It existed before (even the Bible states it... written in about 400 AD), the Zionist movement was formed in the 19th century, then Israel reclaimed in 1948...

 

 

So, by your thinking, because the Irish are now virtually all Christians (Roman Catholic) and not actually Celt's, then their claim is invalid too?

 

The bible is not proper evidence, being a fairy story, certainly not evidence enough to claim territory.

 

What Irish claim? No one is disputing the right of the Irish to live in Ireland are they? The troubles or whatever you want to call em are not about celtic ancestry either to my knowledge.

 

And before anyone starts a wild argument I'm not fanatical on this issue, I just tell it like I see it and believe in a common sense solution eg Oslo accords.

[Funky_Gibbon]

I don't particularly want to go into the rights and wrongs of what Israel are doing in the Middle East regarding the Palestinian situation, but it struck me the other day the opinion in this country seems to be polarised on right/left grounds.

 

I disagree. There are plenty of people whose opinions do not fit with the stereotypical view of Israel from either the left or right. They just don't shout as loudly about it as others do. They might get labelled left or right but that's just reflects the prejudices of whoever is labelling them.

[Funky_Gibbon]

Where differences lie is in who should be making concessions and what those concessions should be. Those on the right tend to have a very selective understanding of what is going on and overlook Israel's role in undermining peace agreements by their support for continued expansion and settlement of territory not its own. The right are not unique in this, and not all on the right are so selective in their understanding of the situation.

 

The right are no more selective than the left. You list what you think is the main issue from your perspective. In this you are being selective. Others would say that the Palestinians have undermined peace agreements in a number of ways which I won't go into because frankly the endless circular arguments on this topic bore me now. They would also be being selective.

 

The truth is that they both share the blame equally because they both do things to anger the other side and undermine any peace process, their towering pride prevents them from working out a deal and this will never change whilst people single out one or the other as one who is responsible for their present situation because it just encourages them to continue acting like spoilt children.

[taxman]

I don't particularly want to go into the rights and wrongs of what Israel are doing in the Middle East regarding the Palestinian situation, but it struck me the other day the opinion in this country seems to be polarised on right/left grounds.

 

My left leaning friends mostly believe that Israel is totally in the wrong and are doing the Palestinians a massive injustice. While those on this right mostly believe the blame for the situation can be put on the door of the Palestinians.

 

Is this something others recognise? And if so why on earth is it the case?

 

M'eh.

 

I'm a lefty sort of person, believe in a Jewish homeland but don't like the hawkish attitude some in Israel take towards the Palestinians. There again you have to put yourself into Israel's position, surrounded on all sides by nations and governments who'd happily wipe you off the map, anti-semites, Islamofacists, totalitarian regimes.

 

There are moderates in both camps but it's hard for them to be heard above the posturing and sabre rattling.

[Wildcat]

The right are no more selective than the left. You list what you think is the main issue from your perspective. In this you are being selective. Others would say that the Palestinians have undermined peace agreements in a number of ways which I won't go into because frankly the endless circular arguments on this topic bore me now. They would also be being selective.

 

The truth is that they both share the blame equally because they both do things to anger the other side and undermine any peace process, their towering pride prevents them from working out a deal and this will never change whilst people single out one or the other as one who is responsible for their present situation because it just encourages them to continue acting like spoilt children.

 

I disagree.

 

Arafat sacrificed a lot to make the Oslo accords work, other Palestiniain organisations did not. Israel never abided by them, in particular the expansion of settlements. The result was Israel undermined the one person that could have led its people to a peaceful settlement. Arafat was undermined by Israel and the second intifada and the rise of Hamas was the direct result of their actions. I can only understand Israeli policy in terms of a deliberate attempt to avoid peace and to continue its expansion in to territory not its own.

[eastbank]

There are less than 6 million Jews in Israel. There are around 2 million non-jews in Israel and more than 4 million refugees from Israel, with a protected right of return under UN resolution 194. By my count that makes for a non-Jewish Israeli majority.

 

but the jews have the bigger bombs and with a bit of luck will qualify for the world cup in qatar in 2022....