Is it true asda is selling halal meat..

[Berberis]

I think the Jewish folks are in a difficult position, since any form of pre stunning isn't kosher, whereas 90% of halal meat in the UK is.

 

http://www.ciwf.org.uk/news/compassion_news/plea_on_unstunned_halal_and_kosher_meat.aspx

 

And that is why I have stated earlier on in this very thread, pre-stunned halal is not a problem. Please try to keep up.

[boyfriday]

Now I fail to believe this statement as there would be just as much a pa-lava about this as slitting an animals throat without stunning and the problem would be addressed, otherwise why be concerned enough to stun an animal in the first place if it could not be carried out correctly ?.

I will look on google to see if it 'often' fails.

 

From the RSPCA

 

"Similarly it is possible for animals stunned with a captive bolt to regain consciousness if they are not stunned effectively. This is can occur if the captive bolt pistol is incorrectly positioned when fired on the animal’s head. With captive bolt stunning it is essential that the pistol is correctly positioned, the correct charge cartridge is used to fire the captive bolt, and the pistol is regularly checked and maintained."

 

http://content.www.rspca.org.uk/cmsprd/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobnocache=false&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1232994130293&ssbinary=true

[Berberis]

..a patronising reply has the whiff of someone unsure of their argument serapis.

 

 

..my reference to eating the fox was clearly a joke, wasn't it??

 

Boyfriday, we have been round this merry-go-round many times, I have posted reference after reference on the subject, quoted ex hunt saboteurs and even the ex leader of the League against cruel sports on this subject.

 

I have made it clear, that I have first hand experience on the subject, I have participated in fox hunts, but I only agree with hunting problem foxes with hounds. I do not agree with any other form of hunting with hounds.

 

As yet you have not once come back with a more humane method of dispatching a fox, you have not given any insight to your experiences on the subject either and you certainly have not shown you know much other then anti-fox hunting rhetoric.

[boyfriday]

And that is why I have stated earlier on in this very thread, pre-stunned halal is not a problem. Please try to keep up.

 

I was keeping up fella, but you quoted a link to an opinion offered by the FAWC damning kosher and halal meat, but the opinion was based on livestock that hadn't been prestunned.

[boyfriday]

Boyfriday, we have been round this merry-go-round many times, I have posted reference after reference on the subject, quoted ex hunt saboteurs and even the ex leader of the League against cruel sports on this subject.

To be honest, Im not bothered, if you recall all I was a addressing was the mealy mouthed hypocrisy of those who claim they object to halal meat on animal welfare grounds.

I have made it clear, that I have first hand experience on the subject, I have participated in fox hunts, but I only agree with hunting problem foxes with hounds. I do not agree with any other form of hunting with hounds.

That's fine, and is the fox prestunned before being executed?

As yet you have not once come back with a more humane method of dispatching a fox, you have not given any insight to your experiences on the subject either and you certainly have not shown you know much other then anti-fox hunting rhetoric.

You seem to be confusing my observations with some sympathy for the well being of the fox-I haven't any. What concerns me is the mindset of human beings who derive pleasure from killing animals.

[wednesday1]

Boyfriday, we have been round this merry-go-round many times, I have posted reference after reference on the subject, quoted ex hunt saboteurs and even the ex leader of the League against cruel sports on this subject.

 

I have made it clear, that I have first hand experience on the subject, I have participated in fox hunts, but I only agree with hunting problem foxes with hounds. I do not agree with any other form of hunting with hounds.

 

As yet you have not once come back with a more humane method of dispatching a fox, you have not given any insight to your experiences on the subject either and you certainly have not shown you know much other then anti-fox hunting rhetoric.

 

 

How about this one (if no's must be controlled):

 

[Berberis]

I was keeping up fella, but you quoted a link to an opinion offered by the FAWC damning kosher and halal meat, but the opinion was based on livestock that hadn't been prestunned.

 

That's my whole argument here. Pre-stunned Halal and Kosher (if there is such a think) are OK, in my opinion. The Only problem we have is non stunned variations which on the face of it are possibly only very few.

 

We should make a law forcing ALL slaughter to be pre stunned, no matter what faith group the meat is destined for.

[hard2miss]

Well from what I can find the most effective method of stunning is the captive bolt pistol.

 

So really there is no argument, no matter if it has a failure rate it is still the most humane way and even if it fails its shot again right away because there's a time limit on the animal being hung and drained of blood.

 

Now its been said that 90% of halal is stunned and the failure rate of the bolt stunning method on the first bolt is up to 10% (often ?) So it boils down to whether its acceptable to put up with 10% of a good practice or 10% of a bad practice.

[Berberis]

How about this one (if no's must be controlled):

 

 

Well that is from Australia and most UK foxes are nocturnal.

[quisquose]

Although the article is critical of both, the main focus is on Kosher, where pre-stunning isn't permissible.

 

However it's a little disingenuous to talk about pain and suffering of the animal, when conventionally slaughtered cattle are stunned by means of a cartridge bolt fired into their skulls which often fails to have the desired effect so is done again.

 

"Most halal butchers now use some stunning, but the RSPCA warns that it is at a much lower dosage to guarantee the animal is still alive when it is killed – so it doesn't properly protect them from pain."

 

If we are genuinely concerned about animal welfare we can't get mealy mouthed about one method stunning over another-we should all become vegetarians in that case.

 

Boyfriday.

 

Given that we are a population of some 60 million, and the vast majority of those people are unable to produce their own food, it is inevitable that we have to rely on mass market agricultural methods to feed ourselves. Given this scenario:

 

1. Do you think that we should endeavour to slaughter animals with as little cruelty as possible? Yes/No.

 

2. If your answer to 1. is yes, can you explain how religion can provide additional benefit towards this endeavour?