Do you think there will be an increase in the sales of 4x4s in 2011

[ChrisT70]

OK, I forgot to mention those special people who think caravaning is a holiday!

 

You still look like a nonce driving one of those things in my opinion!

 

you've obviously never got out much have you?

[Bonzo77]

So would you prefer it if I sold the truck and bought a van for work, a Ford Focus for the family car? Oh, I still need to tow the caravan (which my children love going away in for family holidays).

Maybe crawl out from under your rock, find a wife, have a family, realise that your an idiot and get a life.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm........... Is your reading broken??

 

As I said in my last post, I dopn't mind you driving one of those tanks if you go on caravan holidays!

 

By the way, I have a wife and I have children too! I also have a life thank you very much..... Infact, I'm on a working holiday at the moment in America! Hope you are enjoying the snow!!

[Bonzo77]

you've obviously never got out much have you?

 

No I obviously don't get out much do I?!.......I wish, I haven't been home for months!

[ChrisT70]

Hmmmmmmmmm........... Is your reading broken??

 

As I said in my last post, I dopn't mind you driving one of those tanks if you go on caravan holidays!

 

By the way, I have a wife and I have children too! I also have a life thank you very much..... Infact, I'm on a working holiday at the moment in America! Hope you are enjoying the snow!!

 

i dare you to start a 4x4 bashing thread on a US forum, they will tear you a new a hole as they like to say lol!

[jongo]

Heres a little light reading for the numpties spouting crap about the footprint and size of 4x4's

 

FACTSHEET

Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on facts (mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:

 

CONGESTION - 4x4s are insignificant contributors to congestion and those that do sit in jams actually improve matters!

Unlike their US counterparts, European 4x4s have a smaller 'footprint' on the road than similarly priced saloons. A Range Rover is 20cm shorter than a Mercedes S class, and a Toyota RAV4 is a massive 47cm shorter than a Ford Mondeo!

4x4 vehicles account for only 3% of the cars on the road — that means that in London there are three times as many buses and fifteen times as many taxis entering the central area every day than 4x4s (figures from TfL)

FUEL CONSUMPTION & USAGE — 4x4s in the UK are very different from those in the US. There is already a big incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles (called fuel duty) and most people opt for the most economical 4x4s.

Fuel consumption figures for 4x4s vary greatly, but the vast majority sold in the UK are diesel engined and do between 25 and 42mpg — they are comparable to family saloons not '12mpg gas guzzlers'

Luxury 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK average 27.4mpg according to Spyder Automotive, comparing well with the 28.4mpg achieved by luxury saloons and 27mpg for premium sports cars.

The Honda CRV 2.2d manages 42 mpg combined, the seven seat Discovery TDV6 does 30mpg. The new Lexus RX400h hybrid delivers 32mpg despite having a powerful petrol engine and automatic transmission.

4x4s that do consume more fuel than average also have drivers that already pay more fuel duty, because over 70% of the price of fuel is tax. This is the biggest incentive to restrict sales of these vehicles, and its working. The Land Rover Discovery is the best selling heavy duty 4x4 and 99% of buyers opt for the 30mpg diesel rather than the petrol engined models featured in the publicity material of the anti 4x4 groups

A fairer comparison on fuel consumption would take into account usage annual mileage — many 4x4s are used for towing and carrying whilst longer trips are made by the second family car.

A 4x4 can provide transport for up to 9 people at a time (Defender 110 Station Wagon)

Older petrol engined 4x4s invariably either do a very low annual mileage or are converted to environmentally friendly LPG. These are usually bought due to real customer need — off road use or heavy duty towing.

TAXATION — special taxes on 4x4s would be unfair on those who really need them — and, anyway, what is a 4x4?

The Environment Transport Agency says that drivers have been hit too hard by the carbon debate

Other forms of taxation on 4x4s (higher VED or congestion charge) would be less fair than fuel duty and they would penalise:

- essential users like farmers along with urban dwellers

- those who do a low mileage and so dont burn much fuel

- those who choose a more economical 4x4

Transport for London recently admitted that they could not define a 4x4 robustly. There are many 4x4 cars on the road, like the Jaguar X TYPE and the Audi Quattro models. Equally, some 4x4 models like the Nissan X-Trail are available with front wheel drive only.

SAFETY — 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost less to insure — increasingly they are packed with technology that makes them even safer

All types of car will have to meet the same stringent pedestrian impact tests (new models from 2006, all cars from 2011). The Honda CR-V (the second best selling 4x4 in the UK) already achieves the top rated NCAP 3 star rating for pedestrian safety

DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions and driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles on the road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries.

Arguments about weight in car to car impacts could equally apply to all cars — a new VW Golf GTI weighs twice as much as the 1970's original, largely due to better crash performance and increased safety features.

4 wheel drive makes cars safer in poor road conditions, and the higher driving position of SUVs gives a better view of the road ahead, which is the most crucial accident avoidance measure of all

Most of the more expensive 4x4s are now fitted with parking sensors that aid manoeuvring in tight spaces, reducing the risk of hitting low objects * like children — close to the vehicle

4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced saloons indicating a better safety record.

[jongo]

LARGE 4x4 vehicles that are growing in popularity on UK roads have been exposed as more than twice as lethal to pedestrians than normal cars.

 

Authoritative new research by US scientists shows that when the high-fronted, wide-bodied vehicles, also known as SUVs (sports utility vehicles), crash into children or adults they are far more likely to cause head and chest injuries, and these are much more likely to be fatal.

 

Dozens of children in the US are also run over and killed every year by large vehicles reversing. The accidents often happen in their own driveways, and the drivers are often their own parents or carers.

 

http://www.robedwards.com/2003/12/4x4s_more_than_.html

 

Ordinary cars, whose profiles are lower and less blunt, tend to cause more leg and lower body injuries which are less life-threatening, and they have lower blind spots when reversing.

 

The results clearly showed that the larger and more blunt-fronted the vehicle was, the more likely it was to kill.

 

So while 4.5% of pedestrians struck by a car died, the figure rose to 7.8% when they were hit by a small SUV, and 11.5% when hit by a large one. “Pedestrians struck by large SUVs are twice as likely to die as pedestrians struck by cars,” Gabler and Lefler concluded in a study published in the journal, Accident Analysis & Prevention, and reported by New Scientist.

 

When they further analysed the data, they found that the types of injuries inflicted by SUVs and other large vehicles were more likely to be fatal.

 

Gabler said his study was the first to quantify the increased risk of death to pedestrians from SUVs and other large vehicles, though he stressed it was not their size or weight that mattered, so much as their shape. “The more geometrically blunt they are, the greater the fatality risk,” he said.

 

So, should we start a campaign to get all the buses and trams taken off the road ?

[spritulist]

Heres a little light reading for the numpties spouting crap about the footprint and size of 4x4's

 

FACTSHEET

Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on facts (mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:

 

CONGESTION - 4x4s are insignificant contributors to congestion and those that do sit in jams actually improve matters!

Unlike their US counterparts, European 4x4s have a smaller 'footprint' on the road than similarly priced saloons. A Range Rover is 20cm shorter than a Mercedes S class, and a Toyota RAV4 is a massive 47cm shorter than a Ford Mondeo!

4x4 vehicles account for only 3% of the cars on the road — that means that in London there are three times as many buses and fifteen times as many taxis entering the central area every day than 4x4s (figures from TfL)

FUEL CONSUMPTION & USAGE — 4x4s in the UK are very different from those in the US. There is already a big incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles (called fuel duty) and most people opt for the most economical 4x4s.

Fuel consumption figures for 4x4s vary greatly, but the vast majority sold in the UK are diesel engined and do between 25 and 42mpg — they are comparable to family saloons not '12mpg gas guzzlers'

Luxury 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK average 27.4mpg according to Spyder Automotive, comparing well with the 28.4mpg achieved by luxury saloons and 27mpg for premium sports cars.

The Honda CRV 2.2d manages 42 mpg combined, the seven seat Discovery TDV6 does 30mpg. The new Lexus RX400h hybrid delivers 32mpg despite having a powerful petrol engine and automatic transmission.

4x4s that do consume more fuel than average also have drivers that already pay more fuel duty, because over 70% of the price of fuel is tax. This is the biggest incentive to restrict sales of these vehicles, and its working. The Land Rover Discovery is the best selling heavy duty 4x4 and 99% of buyers opt for the 30mpg diesel rather than the petrol engined models featured in the publicity material of the anti 4x4 groups

A fairer comparison on fuel consumption would take into account usage annual mileage — many 4x4s are used for towing and carrying whilst longer trips are made by the second family car.

A 4x4 can provide transport for up to 9 people at a time (Defender 110 Station Wagon)

Older petrol engined 4x4s invariably either do a very low annual mileage or are converted to environmentally friendly LPG. These are usually bought due to real customer need — off road use or heavy duty towing.

TAXATION — special taxes on 4x4s would be unfair on those who really need them — and, anyway, what is a 4x4?

The Environment Transport Agency says that drivers have been hit too hard by the carbon debate

Other forms of taxation on 4x4s (higher VED or congestion charge) would be less fair than fuel duty and they would penalise:

- essential users like farmers along with urban dwellers

- those who do a low mileage and so dont burn much fuel

- those who choose a more economical 4x4

Transport for London recently admitted that they could not define a 4x4 robustly. There are many 4x4 cars on the road, like the Jaguar X TYPE and the Audi Quattro models. Equally, some 4x4 models like the Nissan X-Trail are available with front wheel drive only.

SAFETY — 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost less to insure — increasingly they are packed with technology that makes them even safer

All types of car will have to meet the same stringent pedestrian impact tests (new models from 2006, all cars from 2011). The Honda CR-V (the second best selling 4x4 in the UK) already achieves the top rated NCAP 3 star rating for pedestrian safety

DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions and driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles on the road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries.

Arguments about weight in car to car impacts could equally apply to all cars — a new VW Golf GTI weighs twice as much as the 1970's original, largely due to better crash performance and increased safety features.

4 wheel drive makes cars safer in poor road conditions, and the higher driving position of SUVs gives a better view of the road ahead, which is the most crucial accident avoidance measure of all

Most of the more expensive 4x4s are now fitted with parking sensors that aid manoeuvring in tight spaces, reducing the risk of hitting low objects * like children — close to the vehicle

4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced saloons indicating a better safety record.

 

nice put.......

[buck]

i dare you to start a 4x4 bashing thread on a US forum, they will tear you a new a hole as they like to say lol!

we have our fair share of 4X4 haters too,I don't own one but I have extended fsmily who do. My son Mike has a Chevrolet Blazer, his wife owns a Hyundai Santa Fe. They are very much outdoor sports lovers, camping, fishing, hunting, and skiing. The vehicles they use are not massive and have proven reliable. But there are massive SUVs out there buily by Lincoln, Chevrolet, and Humvee regularly parked outside biker bars when its too wet.or icy to take out the Harley.

[ChrisT70]

we have our fair share of 4X4 haters too,I don't own one but I have extended fsmily who do. My son Mike has a Chevrolet Blazer, his wife owns a Hyundai Santa Fe. They are very much outdoor sports lovers, camping, fishing, hunting, and skiing. The vehicles they use are not massive and have proven reliable. But there are massive SUVs out there buily by Lincoln, Chevrolet, and Humvee regularly parked outside biker bars when its too wet.or icy to take out the Harley.

 

i must admit we have driven a fair few miles in the US on hols, which we enjoyed, but we did see a lot of little old people getting down out of the likes of F150 crew cabs etc with 5/6 litre engines etc etc, which did seem a little

OTT for the weekly shop.

 

america is different tho in that the majority of people seemed to be in petrol 4x4s and not diesel, as petrol was so cheap. the last time we went in 2008 tho you could tell petrol pricing was starting to bite, lots of adverts for smaller economical cars showing the mpg in the advert, also lots of ford focus sized cars whereas you wouldnt see them in years gone by.

[Tony]

4x4s leave a bigger footprint on the environment than other vehicles and can intimidate pedestrians, cyclists and other road users. They are taking up space in town centres where there is precious little room for these giants of the road.

 

Because SUVs are generally heavier than conventional cars, they need bigger engines, which tend to produce more carbon dioxide.

 

 

 

According to a study by the US Insurance Institute for Highway Safety there are many more deaths from crashes involving SUVs than in any other vehicles.

 

"For all crashes between cars and pickups or cars and SUVs, people in cars are about four times more likely to die than people inside pickups or SUVs," the report concludes.

 

"When pickups or SUVs strike cars in the side, the risk of death for car occupants relative to the risk of the pickup or SUV occupants dying is 27 to 1."

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4043959.stm

LARGE 4x4 vehicles that are growing in popularity on UK roads have been exposed as more than twice as lethal to pedestrians than normal cars.

 

Authoritative new research by US scientists shows that when the high-fronted, wide-bodied vehicles, also known as SUVs (sports utility vehicles), crash into children or adults they are far more likely to cause head and chest injuries, and these are much more likely to be fatal.

 

Dozens of children in the US are also run over and killed every year by large vehicles reversing. The accidents often happen in their own driveways, and the drivers are often their own parents or carers.

 

http://www.robedwards.com/2003/12/4x4s_more_than_.html

 

Ordinary cars, whose profiles are lower and less blunt, tend to cause more leg and lower body injuries which are less life-threatening, and they have lower blind spots when reversing.

 

The results clearly showed that the larger and more blunt-fronted the vehicle was, the more likely it was to kill.

 

So while 4.5% of pedestrians struck by a car died, the figure rose to 7.8% when they were hit by a small SUV, and 11.5% when hit by a large one. “Pedestrians struck by large SUVs are twice as likely to die as pedestrians struck by cars,” Gabler and Lefler concluded in a study published in the journal, Accident Analysis & Prevention, and reported by New Scientist.

 

When they further analysed the data, they found that the types of injuries inflicted by SUVs and other large vehicles were more likely to be fatal.

 

Gabler said his study was the first to quantify the increased risk of death to pedestrians from SUVs and other large vehicles, though he stressed it was not their size or weight that mattered, so much as their shape. “The more geometrically blunt they are, the greater the fatality risk,” he said.

 

 

American pickups and SUV's are in no way comparable to European 4x4's.