Should Terry Jones be banned from the UK

[Stormy]

Jon Cruddas has outlined why he thinks Jones should be banned on CiF in the Guardian. Interesting reading the comments on the progressive, super lefty site - almost all of which are arguing against what Cruddas says.

 

Including the two most highly rated comments:

"So much for freedom of speech in the UK.

 

Britain breeds terrorists, coddles them and protects them.

 

Freedoms in the UK are selectively applied: any hate expressed toward the U.S. or Christianity is protected; anything against Islamist terrorism is silenced.

 

And Brits have the temerity to pontificate and moralize to Americans about freedoms. What a pathetic joke of a country."

(956 so far)

 

and

"We used to believe in free speech in this country. Then New Labour came along.

 

You want to ban him because it suits your political agenda, and that is shameful."

(743 so far)

 

Granted its hardly a scientific sample but I would say the majority of CiF followers are against what Cruddas is saying.

[llamatron]

Don't believe everything the police tell you. They have a habit of aggressively policing anti-fascist demonstrations and provoking trouble whilst leaving the fascists to themselves, until they break out and run amok.

 

whilst I don't believe everything they tell me I don't believe they police either side differently. I think the difference is the students and UAF don't think they should be treated like a mob. I think if they are acting like a mob they should be treated like a mob.

 

The EDL are out to cause trouble and they know it, the others think they are serving society but they aren't.

[Wildcat]

The only distinction you appear to have made is excusing one group the right to smash things up and cause chaos over another.

 

I have twice explained the difference now. Your complaining about political marches, whilst defending a group of hooligans set up to intimidate a section of society is more than a little concerning

[Stormy]

The first time this eejit came to public attention it seemed to me perfectly clear what to do with him. Let him burn his Korans, a whole stack of them if he likes. Let him knock himself right out doing so. Just don't put him at the top of the Ten O'Clock News.

 

It's deeply patronising to Muslims worldwide to think that they will find it any harder than Christians to tell the difference between Pastor Bonkers from Backwoods USA and the official policy of the United States government or the broad current of western feeling towards Islam.

 

If his actions are used as pretexts for attacks on American troops, they will not be the reasons for these attacks but an excuse for them.

 

That violence will always find pretexts — and, God knows, it already has more convincing ones.

 

Labour's Jon Cruddas was expected to table a motion today calling for Pastor Jones to be banned from the country. I think he's wrong to.

 

All that shouting “ban, ban, ban” does is make us look weak and panicky — as well as nurturing a sustaining sense of grievance in silly extremists.

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23906249-let-pastor-jones-come-and-make-a-fool-of-himself.do

 

I agree with just about every word of that.

[mj.scuba]

I have twice explained the difference now. Your complaining about political marches, whilst defending a group of hooligans set up to intimidate a section of society is more than a little concerning

 

I wasn't defending the EDL, read the post! But you were defending the same behavior by students. I'm disgusted by the behavior of both.

[Plain Talker]

 

When Terry Jones did what he did, I thought it was brilliant, because as I said, it highlighted the hypocrisy of the vocal Islamic extremists!

 

why is intolerance from whatever side "Brilliant"?

 

incitement to religious hatred is wrong, whatever side it comes from.

 

It's unacceptable from Abu Hamza, and it's unacceptable from this Terry Jones Fella.

[sccsux]

why is intolerance from whatever side "Brilliant"?

 

When Terry Jones did what he did, I thought it was brilliant, because as I said, it highlighted the hypocrisy of the vocal Islamic extremists

 

There's your answer.

[Wildcat]

I wasn't defending the EDL, read the post! But you were defending the same behavior by students. I'm disgusted by the behavior of both.

 

Being disgusted by violence in whatever form is irrelevant to the point I have been making.

 

I have read your posts and quite clearly they are defending EDL by making the comparison with the students legitimate protest that needs to be allowed to qualify society as a democracy.

 

The point I am making and the one you are trying not to acknowledge is that EDL's protests don't require protection for the purpose of sustaining our democracy any more than we would allow any other group of thugs to get together and intimidate a community.

 

Therein lies the distinction and nothing to do with the spurious comparison you are insisting on for the benefit of the far right hooligans.

[Harleyman]

I find it ludicrous that any democratic government could pass a law making it a crime to utter any kind of view and as it applies to religion justifying the law by saying it incites religious hatred. Obviously the government have little respect for the common sense and intelligence of the people if they think that a person could stand in a public place, make adverse comments about a religion and turn the spectators into a hate filled mob running amok and burning down religious establishments. What the govrenment are in effect telling you is that as far as they're concerned you are a bunch of mindless sheep and cannot be trusted to know what is right from what is obviously an obnoxious fanatic mouthing off extremist views.

 

British people are known for being one of the most tolerant people in the world. I used to sometimes stop and listen to people at speakers corner in Hyde Park. London. There were everything from atheists to arnachists expressing their views and some humorous and often irreverent comments from the crowd but no violence whatsoever.

Whatever happened to all that ?

[mj.scuba]

Being disgusted by violence in whatever form is irrelevant to the point I have been making.

 

I have read your posts and quite clearly they are defending EDL by making the comparison with the students legitimate protest that needs to be allowed to qualify society as a democracy.

 

The point I am making and the one you are trying not to acknowledge is that EDL's protests don't require protection for the purpose of sustaining our democracy any more than we would allow any other group of thugs to get together and intimidate a community.

 

Therein lies the distinction and nothing to do with the spurious comparison you are insisting on for the benefit of the far right hooligans.

 

So basically what you're saying is students smashing stuff up is ok because 'it is necessary to qualify us as a democracy', but when EDL do it they're just thugs. Sorry but I call that double standards, I do not see how you can say one is alright whilst the other is not, both are bad, and violence by studenst certainly isn't necessary for us to be a democracy. I don't support violence by the EDL, please do not suggest otherwise without backing it up! But neither do I support the violence we have seen from students of late. I only take issue with your double standards by saying it's alright by one group but not another.