Christmas is a lie posters

[flamingjimmy]

In case I am not clear; I think those priests responsible for such disgusting things should be defrocked and sent to prison for lengthy terms.

 

If the catholic church agreed with you then we wouldn't have a problem.

 

The issue that I and many others have is that the Church cares far more about its own public image than it does the safety of children in its care. And that is far more despicable than the content of the posters from the OP.

[Cyclone]

And isn't it the case that the Catholic church, alone of institutions working with children, has been singled out for this treatment? Is it not the case that, when paedophiles are working as teachers, the institution as a whole is not held liable, while every attempt is made to damn the whole church for things which it condemns on religious principle and which most people could never have known much about, or felt were at all likely?

 

I've never seen it documented that teachers who abused children were simply moved to another school, is that what you're trying to suggest?

If not, then this is precisely the reason the church is held to be accountable for the behaviour of some of it's members, because it did nothing to see them prosecuted and tried to hide them (succeeded for many years in fact).

[mj.scuba]

There has been a generalised tolerance for these groups which has extended to both the media and the authorities. Morever, there is no sign that this tolerance, or indulgence, is abating (cf. the recent decision by C4 to allow assorted Islamic extremists air time, something they would never do in relation to right-wing extremists). The group associated with the production of these posters has been active in various froms at British universities for years (I suggest you read up on this).

 

Lord Chaverley, I agree with all of the posts you have made on this thread, I think they are concise and to the point. Regards to the tolerance extended to extremists, this can pretty much be explained by the Rushdie Rules if you've ever heard of them.

[melthebell]

And what reasonably intelligent people are going to pay any attention to these posters? It states quite clearly that they are the work of a group of fanatics from a banned Islamic hate group.

 

Sad, pathetic people who display so much hate should be ignored.

 

exactly, fgs

 

the first line

"Fanatics from a banned Islamic hate group have launched a nationwide poster campaign denouncing Christmas as evil."

 

we know for a fact extremists hate it cos its christian and to them western, we know theyre gonna use it as an excuse to offend people

 

................and its worked, they win, well done people

 

ignore em and dont give them the oxygen they need to survive

[spindrift]

Leaving aside the slightly extreme phrasing, doesn't this amount to a general reluctance to believe unsubstantiated accusations in an era when child abuse wasn't taken seriously anywhere? And wasn't the same policy pursued by all institutions in that period?

 

 

 

And isn't it the case that the Catholic church, alone of institutions working with children, has been singled out for this treatment? Is it not the case that, when paedophiles are working as teachers, the institution as a whole is not held liable, while every attempt is made to damn the whole church for things which it condemns on religious principle and which most people could never have known much about, or felt were at all likely?

 

The abuse of children by those in a position of trust is an evil. But I notice that no condemnation is forthcoming against people like Peter Tatchell who has advocated that boys of 14 be made legally sexually available. So we have to ask whether all this hysteria in the press is quite sincere. The Catholics reject paedophilia, and would do so, however fashionable it became. The establishment ... well, it doesn't seem so sure.

 

It is a standard tactic, when you wish to diminish the moral influence of a body prior to seizing its assets, to accuse it of odious sex crimes in order to demonise it. Is this what is happening here? I notice very little effort to bring the wicked priests to justice; not compared to the effort to demonise the church as a whole.

 

I'm not very keen on politically motivated witchhunts, you know. Let's look beyond the story the media -- i.e. the handful of powerful people who control newspapers and TV stations -- want us to think, and reflect on what else may be involved. It's only self-preservation.

 

In case I am not clear; I think those priests responsible for such disgusting things should be defrocked and sent to prison for lengthy terms.

 

All the best,

 

Roger Pearse

 

 

Bravo Roger, there is an unpleasant anti-catholic under current here sometimes.

[spindrift]

There has been a generalised tolerance for these groups which has extended to both the media and the authorities. Morever, there is no sign that this tolerance, or indulgence, is abating (cf. the recent decision by C4 to allow assorted Islamic extremists air time, something they would never do in relation to right-wing extremists). The group associated with the production of these posters has been active in various froms at British universities for years (I suggest you read up on this).

 

I can't see any tolerance for them!

 

Some nutters with a printing press are getting far more publicity courtesy of The Mail- a paper with their own agenda.

 

I don't think these chaps should be condemned.

 

I think they should be pointed and laughed at.

[flamingjimmy]

Bravo Roger, there is an unpleasant anti-catholic under current here sometimes.

 

Could you give an example?

 

There are plenty of racists on here, a fair few anti-semites, and loads of Islamohphobes, but I certainly haven't noticed any hatred towards catholics.

 

A lot of people have issues with the Church as an institution, but I think you'd struggle to find a single post with an anti-catholic sentiment. I ask because I like to know where people come from, I can easily identify the racists and Islamophobes and ignore them/counter troll them, and would like to do the same to any anti-catholic posters.

 

Saying people are anti-catholic for criticising the Church is like saying someone is anti-english for criticising the government.

 

Also, Roger you are my hero, keep it up.

[LordChaverly]

Nick Griffin never got his ugly mug on TV then?

 

I'm still not sure though why you're concerned about media tolerance of these groups. The media don't represent the security forces...

For that matter, parts of the media are rabidly right wing themselves, so you can hardly argue that they wouldn't be tolerant of right wing extremists!

 

Griffin's appearance on TV was mainly due to our electoral laws, which required broadcasters to provide airtime to parties fighting a certain proportion of seats. This applied of course also to his notorious appearance on 'Question Time'. Contrast this, for example, with Channel 4's recent decsion to grant notorious Islamic extremists, such as Choudary, air time to spout their views.

 

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/11/27/channel-4-stirs-up-anti-muslim-bigotry/

 

As for the right-wing media, you are wrong in thinking that they are tolerant of right-wing extremists. Indeed, the Mail, Express and Sun have all run vitriolic campaigns against both the BNP and EDL.

[LordChaverly]

The incidents of paedophilia in the catholic church are no more common than in any other organisation.

 

.

 

 

Do you have any statistical evidence to support this bold assertion? I do not know of any reliable evidence one way or the other, although I strongly suspect that the incidence of paedophilia is indeed much higher in the Catholic church than in other religious organisations because of the ludicrous, unnatural and unhealthy imposition of celebacy on the Catholic priesthood. As far as I know, no other major religion distorts the sexuality of its clerics in this way.

[spindrift]

Do you have any statistical evidence to support this bold assertion? .

 

 

Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of the entire population of clergy. This figure, cited in the book Pedophiles and Priests by non-Catholic scholar, Philip Jenkins, is from the most comprehensive study to date, which found that only one out of 2,252 priests considered over a thirty-year period was afflicted with pedophilia.

 

In the wake of the current crisis in the Church, other religious denominations and non-religious institutions have admitted to having similar problems with both pedophilia and ephebophilia among the ranks of their clergy. There's no evidence that Catholic prelates are more likely to be pedophiles than Protestant ministers, Jewish leaders, physicians, or any other institution in which adults are in a position of authority and power over children.

 

 

 

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/facts/fm0011.html

 

The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

 

No formal comparative study has ever broken down child sexual abuse by denomination, and only the Catholic Church has released detailed data about its own. But based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue.

 

 

"We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,"

 

 

said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

 

 

"I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others."

 

Worldwide, fewer than one Catholic priest in 4,000 has been accused (let alone convicted) of child abuse.

 

 

I am unclear as to how the 0.00025% that works out to can reasonably be described as either “extensive” or “widespread”.

 

 

A very, very tiny number of very, very rotten apples.

 

 

In Ireland, less than 3% of all abuse in society was perpetrated by priests (Sexual Abuse and Violence Report in Ireland, Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland and Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, 2002).

 

When you consider that paedophiles tend to concentrate in professions where they have easy access to children (and in Ireland, the Church had a near monopoly on childcare) that’s not hugely disproportionate.

 

 

In New York, over 7% of school teachers have been accused of child abuse.