Should prisoners be given a nice christmas day?

[Cavegirl]

And the people who did wrong probably got punished, and probably a whole lot more brutally than they do now! Maybe they were even eaten!

 

Maybe they were eaten- who knows, but they weren't criminals. That's my point.

[cad&abounder]

The prison warden of Château d'If had the right idea.

[spooky3]

Maybe they were eaten- who knows, but they weren't criminals. That's my point.

 

Daft point really because they would have been called something which meant something similar! Bully maybe, thug, or any other four letter word of the day!

[Cavegirl]

Not really. They are there because the chose to break the law, where caught by the police and found guilty by a jury. No sympthy for them what so ever.

 

Perhaps a little real understanding of the situation will change your mind? Here's Michael Moore's discussion about what happened within juvenile detention centres after they were privatised:

 

Wilkes-Barre has one of Pennsylvania's highest rates of juveniles in detention.

Of those juveniles who were brought before the juvenile courts in Luzerne County, a very high percentage were placed in detention – that is, taken out of their homes and placed for a time in a juvenile facility. The statewide average in Pennsylvania is just under 10% of kids that go to juvenile court are placed in a facility. In Luzerne County, 25.8% were. See pages 28-29 in the 2007 report on Pennsylvania Juvenile Court Dispositions.

 

Luzerne County hired a for-profit, private company to deal with juveniles, owned by two entrepreneurs, one of whom was attorney Robert Powell.

Times Leader, January 27, 2009: "July 2001: A group of private developers called "Pennsylvania Child Care" sends Luzerne County an unsolicited proposal to build a 48-bed juvenile detention facility in Pittston Township ... The principal investors were identified as Greg Zappala and attorney Robert Powell."

 

Robert Powell's friend Judge Michael Conahan used his influence to shut down the county's public juvenile facility, and helped Powell get the $58 million contract to provide services to Luzerne County.

 

Times Leader, January 27, 2009: "October 2002: Conahan publicly announces that judges will stop sending youth to the [public juvenile facility] River Street center at the end of the year because the building is too rundown ... December 2002: Conahan takes official action to remove funding from the county budget for the county's River Street center. County majority commissioners approve the court's budget request. The court returns the River Street center license to the state, essentially closing the place... Oct. 20, 2004: [Commissioners] Skrepenak and Vonderheid vote to lease the Pittston Township detention center for 20 years at a cost of $58 million ..."

Hillary Transue was placed in detention for making a MySpace page mocking her Assistant Principal.

New York Times, February 13, 2009: "At worst, Hillary Transue thought she might get a stern lecture when she appeared before a judge for building a spoof MySpace page mocking the assistant principal at her high school in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. She was a stellar student who had never been in trouble, and the page stated clearly at the bottom that it was just a joke. Instead, the judge sentenced her to three months at a juvenile detention center on a charge of harassment."

 

Robert Powell, one of the owners of PA Child Care, cut a business deal with Judge Conahan and Judge Ciavarella, paying them $2.6 million to help the for-profit juvenile facility.

 

MSNBC: "Prosecutors say Luzerne County Judges Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan took $2.6 million in payoffs to put juvenile offenders in lockups run by PA Child Care LLC and a sister company, Western PA Child Care LLC."

Times Leader: "Ciavarella and Conahan pleaded guilty to federal charges that they accepted more than $2.6 million in kickbacks in connection to the construction and operation of juvenile detention facilities."

UPDATE: Times-Tribune: When a judge refused to grant lenient plea deals, Ciavarella and Conahan withdrew their guilty pleas in August 2009; however, they are expected to be re-indicted and tried.

Robert Powell enjoyed his ill-gotten gains on a private jet and a private yacht, called the "Reel Justice."

 

Times Leader: "[Powell] owned a 56-foot yacht named "Reel Justice," and a 12-seat Rockwell International jet is registered at his business address."

6,500 kids were unjustly convicted.

 

Times Leader, July 28, 2009: 6,500 children were convicted by Ciavarella during this time period.

A judge has recommended that all 6,500 records be expunged because of the corruption scandal: "In an unprecedented decision, a court-appointed master on Wednesday recommended the wholesale reversal of thousands of convictions of juveniles who appeared before a corrupt Luzerne County judge. In a 32-page report, Arthur E. Grim, the special master appointed by the state Supreme Court, said evidence that the youths were deprived of their constitutional rights was so expansive and persuasive that all the cases heard over five years should be thrown out and not be retried. The cases involve youths who appeared between 2003 and May 2008 before former judge Mark A. Ciavarella Jr., who is awaiting sentencing for a guilty plea to federal corruption charges."

 

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/facts/capitalism-love-story

[spooky3]

Perhaps a little real understanding of the situation will change your mind?

...

 

Does it matter to you about the offence committed?

 

Do you think getting rid of prisons is a solution?

[Cavegirl]

Does it matter to you about the offence committed?

 

Do you think getting rid of prisons is a solution?

 

I think prisons are one method that can be used to punish criminals, however I'm very much against the idea of locking people up on trivial charges for profit.

 

I think until it becomes clear how many of the 45,000 extra prisoners that have been incarcerated since privatisation was introduced were incarcerated on petty charges for profit we shoud be careful about the way we discuss and treat prisoners.

[spooky3]

Other than the few wrongly convicted miscarriages of justice, do you not agree that they have committed offences which were publicly known to be a prison-able crime, or are you saying that they didn't commit crimes?

 

When referring to "trivial charges", what in English law are you referring to?

 

As to profit, how is the system supposed to be run? Higher taxes? We're already paying higher insurance, a higher percentage cost on products due to extra security, taxes going to Police for prevention and detection and prosecution, taxes for the court system, taxes to support the victims, etc, etc, etc... Crimes costs the honest, decent people in so many ways.

 

But at the end of the day, this thread is about whether prisoners should be given a nice day at the taxpayers expense!

[norks]

I think the thumbscrews should be slackened off... a little.

 

 

Are you nuts.....you know what that monster did to me and you know what he is still doing.

I am suprised at you

[shefflive!]

Are you nuts.....you know what that monster did to me and you know what he is still doing.

I am suprised at you

 

But they are paying for what they did. What can they still be doing? The guys entitled to his opinion. It does not sit well with you agreed

[norks]

But they are paying for what they did. What can they still be doing? The guys entitled to his opinion. It does not sit well with you agreed

 

 

In my opinon they are not paying enough for what they did. As for what they are still doing i cannot say on an open forum but lets put it this way...someone lost their lives at the hands of this monster and if he ever gets out then i have no doubt that other lives will be lost.

 

I am suprised at steelhead4 as he knows all the details of said person and has seen all the scars bot mentally and physically this person left behind