andyofborg Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 but it isn't a solution for a 'better' life... doesn't that depends what you mean by better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Star Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 doesn't that depends what you mean by better? That is why I wrote 'better' rather than better... It's a void that those who convert are seeking to fill... They are looking for something, and it won't be located in religion... False gods are of no use to us, but for some the void is so large, only 'god' can fill it and my heart goes out to them, it really does... It's just so damaging for them, it's different when you are born into a faith, as you don't take it all too seriously, whereas converts really do believe and this isn't right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 That is why I wrote 'better' rather than better... It's a void that those who convert are seeking to fill... They are looking for something, and it won't be located in religion... False gods are of no use to us, but for some the void is so large, only 'god' can fill it and my heart goes out to them, it really does... It's just so damaging for them, it's different when you are born into a faith, as you don't take it all too seriously, whereas converts really do believe and this isn't right... perhaps some seeking to convert do have unrealistic expectations, to achieve anything, even fullfillment, takes work and needs a realistic understanding of your situation. I'm not sure that all those who help the conversion process point out that it's not just as easy as saying "I'm a whatever" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 That is why I wrote 'better' rather than better... It's a void that those who convert are seeking to fill... They are looking for something, and it won't be located in religion... False gods are of no use to us, but for some the void is so large, only 'god' can fill it and my heart goes out to them, it really does... It's just so damaging for them, it's different when you are born into a faith, as you don't take it all too seriously, whereas converts really do believe and this isn't right... For many people, regardless of your personal opinion, it is located in religion. I'm quite sure there are many converts who's find your 'my heart goes out to them' uneccessary and rather patronising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 That is so patronizing. I am a very strong individual, very strong willed, who has so far never been affraid of questioning my beliefs, hence the change in my faith. Everybody has faith in something, yours may not been God, but it is some belief that makes you wake up in the morning and live life to the full. I too live my life to the full and it is not a piece of cloth on my head or my covered body, nor me not ingesting intoxicating substances, nor me having sex before being wedded that makes me a weak, vulnerable human.People have to start thinking outside their small life spectrum, and discover and find out for themselves what other ways of life are avaliable. My bold. I never realised that was compulsory for non-muslims. Cool, I've got some catching up to do. Still, the rejection of "western" lifestyles was often given as a reason for converting by many when the story first appeared in yesterday's Independent, and Fiyaz Mughal, director of Faith Matters, was pushing Islam on various Radio/TV programmes. Like rubydazzler, I just find it amusing to observe that people seem to need swap one addiction for another. If you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. If you don't like sex outside marriage, don't do it. You don't need religion to avoid things you don't like, and trying to claim otherwise is so, well, patronising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 According to this story its obvious. The Times Andrew Norfolk Last updated January 5 2011 6:59PM "THE UK’s largest children’s charity called tonight for Home Office action to investigate the dominant role played by British Pakistani men in the on-street grooming and sexual exploitation of hundreds of British girls. Martin Narey, chief executive of Barnardo’s, was responding to the exposure by The Times of a repeated pattern of group child-sex offending in which most victims are white girls aged 12-16 and a majority of the men convicted of abusing them are British Pakistanis. Though police forces and agencies working to protect children in northern England and the Midlands have been aware of the abuse for many years, fear of being branded racist has allowed numerous abusers to escape prosecution. Barnardo’s runs projects in many of the affected communities and Mr Narey told The Times that he was “really, really pleased to see this finally out in the open”. “This is remarkably sensitive but it’s not something we’re denying. The significant over-representation of men from ethnic minority groups, generally referred to as Asian, in this type of offending needs to be looked at.” The Times gave details today of 17 court cases since 1997, 14 of them in the past three years and from 13 towns and cities, in which two or more men were convicted of offences linked to the on-street grooming of girls. In the worst cases, children were groomed with mobile phones, alcohol and drugs before being driven to Pakistani communities in different towns and cities to be used for sex by a queue of older men. The 17 prosecutions led to the conviction of 58 men with an average age of 28. Three were white and 55 were Asian, of which 50 were Muslim men, most of them from the British Pakistani community. Mr Narey said Barnardo’s had become aware of cases of on-street grooming involving Pakistani men but had also identified groups of abusers from other ethnic minority communities, including Afghani men and Kurdish asylum seekers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Star Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 My bold. I never realised that was compulsory for non-muslims. Cool, I've got some catching up to do. Still, the rejection of "western" lifestyles was often given as a reason for converting by many when the story first appeared in yesterday's Independent, and Fiyaz Mughal, director of Faith Matters, was pushing Islam on various Radio/TV programmes. Like rubydazzler, I just find it amusing to observe that people seem to need swap one addiction for another. If you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. If you don't like sex outside marriage, don't do it. You don't need religion to avoid things you don't like, and trying to claim otherwise is so, well, patronising. It seemed to me that lh123 felt that without a strict code, that this would be their lifestyle choice... Obviously behaving like this is a minority sport, but it did highlight why they felt the need for the restrictions they have found to help them in their life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Star Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 For many people, regardless of your personal opinion, it is located in religion. I'm quite sure there are many converts who's find your 'my heart goes out to them' uneccessary and rather patronising. Perhaps my feeling bad for them would seem patronising to them - afterall, they have lacked having someone looking out for them or else they wouldn't have been drawn into something so damaging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Star Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 perhaps some seeking to convert do have unrealistic expectations, to achieve anything, even fullfillment, takes work and needs a realistic understanding of your situation. I'm not sure that all those who help the conversion process point out that it's not just as easy as saying "I'm a whatever" I know that those involved in evangelising religion don't really think about the needs of those begging to join their faith... They simply seek to add to their numbers... I have seen it far too often, and it's just not right... Preying on the weak is a nasty sport for some, and it's made worse when those involved pretend to have their interests at heart... Not just islam involved in these habits - christians do it too and I am sure other faiths and cults are equally at fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloomdido Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I feel the thread is losing its way in the references to the Times piece today. I know one of the cases referred to in that article very well indeed. As for why women convert, I heard an interview on the radio yesterday morning. The convert said that she preferred the closeness of her muslim sisters and that she could stop competing with her friends regarding make-up and the latest clothes. For some people, too much freedom is not necessarily a good thing. Look around town on a Saturday night. My understanding of Islam is that it provides a varying degree of expected behaviour in both sexes (as most faiths and indeed society generally do). This can be reassuring for some people and frustrating for others. I still see it as a sexist, male dominated religion that has very clear distinctions as to what is acceptable for women and men. Some people will welcome that. Others will be frustrated by it. Sadly some women will be murdered because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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