Straw criticised for abuse comments !

[Nagel]

It would be intersting to see how Asia is defined geographicly it could be said that Australia (Australasia) is Asian are Japanese Asian, Vietnam was described in a song as Asiatic (Ruby Don't Take Your Love To town).

To many people in this country Asian is the general term used when refering to those of Pakistani origin as a very high percentage of Asians in this country are from pakistan.

 

Asia is huge. It goes all the way from Turkey and Russia to Japan and Indonesia.

 

It includes Israel too. Using 'Asian' to mean people from what used to be greater India is just lazy. The correct term is now South Asians.

[LordChaverly]

..these attitudes, where they exist, are an overhang from the navel gazing that many senior officers engaged in post MacPherson Report more than 10 years ago.

 

The police service has moved a long way since then, I dont know of any officers who have this attitude, since they know that an evidence based investigation following properly laid down procedures places them in a position where they cannot be legitimately criticised or censured-that's what they're paid to do.

 

Mr Gradwell, quoted in the Daily Mail article, is a retired superintendent, he refers to incidents dating back to 1979-believe me no police officer had any problem tackling crime committed by ethnic minorities then, in fact they were over zealous in doing so in many cases. What he's saying sounds more like an excuse for poor performance than any policy of not tackling crime committed by Asians specifically.

 

The police service he's left behind is a different animal as far as serving ethnic communities and dealing with their miscreants is concerned-the 9 arrestees and 2 recently sentenced would beg to differ with the former officer's view.

 

He alludes to the Macpherson report, which appeared if i remember rightly, in 1999, with its proposals, based on the pernicious saw of 'institutional racism, being introduced thereafter. The tenor of his remarks is that the police were cowed by fear of being accused of 'institutional racism' into turning a blind eye to such crimes. I think there was probably another factor at work also, and that was the fear of provoking riots in certain areas.

[NoPests]

I presume there will be many more that dont get found out to the peril of some little girl's

[boyfriday]

He alludes to the Macpherson report, which appeared if i remember rightly, in 1999, with its proposals, based on the pernicious saw of 'institutional racism, being introduced thereafter. The tenor of his remarks is that the police were cowed by fear of being accused of 'institutional racism' into turning a blind eye to such crimes. I think there was probably another factor at work also, and that was the fear of provoking riots in certain areas.

 

I agree post MacPherson, the police were caught like rabbits in the headlights-damned if they do and damned if they don't. But Mr Gradwell also makes reference to incidents pre MacPherson long before the police were required to take a hard look at themselves.

 

The learning curve has been a steep one and they've got their act together, realising that some communities present different challenges to the ones they're familiar with in terms of serving and policing.

 

As I said earlier if they follow the correct procedures and collect evidence properly they've nothing to fear other than a little harsh language from their detainees and I've never met a police officer who has been anything other than more motivated on hearing that.

[boyfriday]

I presume there will be many more that dont get found out to the peril of some little girl's

 

..as there will be from all other communities-remember most child abusers are family members of their victims, most suffer in silence for that reason.

[Kaimani]

You are correct and it does still happen.

 

Its not right Kaimani to say its because Asian men go places in packs so we are mistaken. Scoop and I are neither of us deluded nor rascist.. The fact is Asian men go to these sort of places places - mainstream nightclubs with cheap drinks and sticky floors and nasty toilets - 'meat markets' as they're known amongst my friends - expecting women of loose morals to be there and for it not to matter how they treat them. The white men do the same its just they refine their chat up lines as they know it'll get them further than random groping.

 

oh, no, i wasn't saying you're mistaken. it happens, yes, the pack thing, and can easily get out of hand. i've seen it. i was just saying that, sometimes, people go to these places in packs for 'safety' themselves. i get 'is it true what they say about black men' thing all the time or random hands on my ass. this is all 'harmless' i think.

what scoop said happened to her and her friends is unacceptable.

hope i didn't give the impression that it is.

as an aside-the reason why white women are seen as easy by many migrant societies is coz in our home countries smoking, going out etc would be seen as such. it takes a while before people learn to change and learn otherwise. what i don't understand is people from ethnic minorities who were born here saying the same.

[Kaimani]

But these men actually touched us - sexual assault really - hands up skirts, down tops, boobs groped - I can remember one man putting his hand down the back of my skirt into my knickers, etc - I've never experienced this problem with other groups of men, but we came to expect it when we saw groups of asians on the dance flooor.

 

I'm talking about something different to a group of rowdy men out on the pull.

 

I think it does transpose, because I think it says something about how asian men view white women.

 

this just calls for police involvement. my picture of what you mentioned at the beginning was a lot tamer than this.

[alchresearch]

Anyone remember this thread. Any relevance to this one perhaps?

[LordChaverly]

oh, no, i wasn't saying you're mistaken. it happens, yes, the pack thing, what i don't understand is people from ethnic minorities who were born here saying the same.

 

This is largely due to the impact of the ideology of cultural separatism, which has been the dominant ideology within the field of race relations in the UK for decades. It is a pernicious and dangerous doctrine, because it promotes the idea that fundamentally different social and moral values can exist within the same country without friction, or indeed serious trouble. Now it might be the case that sub-cultures based on radically different value systems can rub along harmoniously if they are insulated from each other, but in an open society such as ours this is hardly possible.

[boyfriday]

This is largely due to the impact of the ideology of cultural separatism, which has been the dominant ideology within the field of race relations in the UK for decades. It is a pernicious and dangerous doctrine, because it promotes the idea that fundamentally different social and moral values can exist within the same country without friction, or indeed serious trouble. Now it might be the case that sub-cultures based on radically different value systems can rub along harmoniously if they are insulated from each other, but in an open society such as ours this is hardly possible.

 

I'm certainly not championing cultural separatism, my own family are a walking, talking hopefully successful model for the opposite, but even with the indigenous culture there exist differences that keep people separate, Im thinking principally of the class system.

 

A middle class white person is likely to have more in common with a middle class muslim than they are a working class member of their own race.

 

As Kaimani alluded to earlier, integration takes time-50 years ago it was seen as impossible that black immigrants would integrate reasonably well into the indigenous culture, although the job was made easier by them sharing the same language and religious observation.

 

It will take longer with Asian immigrants, but provided they have Western, non secular influences in school, college and university environments then it will happen over time.