MP wants ALL men in Bristol DNA screened to find killer

[Magilla]

Can you show any references to this. I searched yesterday and didn't find any!

 

I can detail the events as I recall them, I can't find a link off hand though it's been posted here on previous ID-Card discussions in the past.

 

It was also included in a BBC program about the introduction of ID cards and the DNA database.

 

It goes something like this:-

 

1... 15 year old gets attacked in the street for no reason and reports the attack to the police. The police arrest the attacker, who then claims he was the victim. No evidence either way, so both are arrested and DNA taken. Both recieve a caution.

 

2... Kid posts birthday card to grandmother.

 

3... Postbox kid uses is broken into and contents robbed (presumably for cheques, gifts, money orders ect...)

 

4... Discarded post is discovered thrown into a ditch and reported to police.

 

5... Police get DNA sample from one of the letters, the kid is the only person who matches any DNA on the DNA database.

 

6... Kids house is raided at 5:30 am, kid is handcuffed and dragged to police van infront of all neighbours and his parents.

 

7... Kid is subsequently accused of the crime of postal fraud, and offered a caution as he's under age. The parents are understandably confused, but the police assure them that they *know* he's guilty.

 

8... Solicitor turns up and asks about the evidence, at this point the letter to his granny is produced. The solicitor asks if anyone had considered if the poster of the letter was infact the kid in question, no-one thought of that possibility before the raid.. oops. Police begrudgingly let the kid go without caution.

 

9... Parents are still trying to get his DNA off the DNA database.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Magilla

[spooky3]

I can detail the events as I recall them, I can't find a link off hand though it's been posted here on previous ID-Card discussions in the past.

 

It was also included in a BBC program about the introduction of ID cards and the DNA database.

 

It goes something like this:-

 

1... 15 year old gets attacked in the street for no reason and reports the attack to the police. The police arrest the attacker, who then claims he was the victim. No evidence either way, so both are arrested and DNA taken. Both recieve a caution.

 

2... Kid posts birthday card to grandmother.

 

3... Postbox kid uses is broken into and contents robbed (presumably for cheques, gifts, money orders ect...)

 

4... Discarded post is discovered thrown into a ditch and reported to police.

 

5... Police get DNA sample from one of the letters, the kid is the only person who matches any DNA on the DNA database.

 

6... Kids house is raided at 5:30 am, kid is handcuffed and dragged to police van infront of all neighbours and his parents.

 

7... Kid is subsequently accused of the crime of postal fraud, and offered a caution as he's under age. The parents are understandably confused, but the police assure them that they *know* he's guilty.

 

8... Solicitor turns up and asks about the evidence, at this point the letter to his granny is produced. The solicitor asks if anyone had considered if the poster of the letter was infact the kid in question, no-one thought of that possibility before the raid.. oops. Police begrudgingly let the kid go without caution.

 

9... Parents are still trying to get his DNA off the DNA database.

 

 

So it wasn't a DNA DB error, actually due to a human understanding error!

 

I know and have been involved in similar circumstance with the Police. One not too long ago, CID came accusing me because of a lead, yet I said where did you get the original info, he said I don't know we were just sent out to find out, so I said, I guessed not because it was me who gave you the tip off!

 

Most computer systems don't cause errors or create security breaches, humans do! Mainly because they can't be bothered!

[Conrod]

In answer to the above example, is the kid hanging from chains in the Tower now?

 

I doubt it.

[spooky3]

...

It was also included in a BBC program about the introduction of ID cards and the DNA database.

...

 

I believe I watched it too. Mr Vine!

[sharrowman]

"BUT just how likely is it for somebody else's DNA to match mine, unless I have a twin?"

 

The article quoted offers a 1 in a trillion chance of a false match assuming that all of the databasing has been carried out correctly, that, for example, Conrod's samples have been stored under the entry for Conrod, that they have not been duplicated by tired/bored lab operative begrudgingly processing their hungover workload. That psycho killer's sample has not been stored under Conrod's name, accidently, or even, god forbid, maliciously. And if Conrod's sample has been stored under the details of Psycho Killer a re-sample may not help you too much. Seems to me that the larger the database becomes the more likely it is that error will creep in.

[Conrod]

"BUT just how likely is it for somebody else's DNA to match mine, unless I have a twin?"

 

The article quoted offers a 1 in a trillion chance of a false match assuming that all of the databasing has been carried out correctly, that, for example, Conrod's samples have been stored under the entry for Conrod, that they have not been duplicated by tired/bored lab operative begrudgingly processing their hungover workload. That psycho killer's sample has not been stored under Conrod's name, accidently, or even, god forbid, maliciously. And if Conrod's sample has been stored under the details of Psycho Killer a re-sample may not help you too much. Seems to me that the larger the database becomes the more likely it is that error will creep in.

So, highly unlikely then.

[RichD]

In answer to the above example, is the kid hanging from chains in the Tower now?

 

I doubt it.

 

Does that matter? Without his DNA being on the database he wouldn't have suffered the indignity of being hauled out of his home, handcuffed, and accused of a crime he had nothing to do with. Are you saying the kid should be happy that happened to him because somehow the Police having his DNA is of benefit in crime-solving? Quite the opposite. Them having his DNA made them suspect him just because his DNA was present at the scene. No other evidence, just his DNA. Wasted Police time and money, and possibly ongoing damage to the boy's reputation among his neighbours and possibly beyond, if there are any gossips among them.

[Magilla]

In answer to the above example, is the kid hanging from chains in the Tower now?

 

I doubt it.

 

Does that in anyway change the fact that he was falsely accused, his home raided, him being dragged out of bed, handcuffed and paraded to a van infront of his peers?

 

You seem to be implying that you find this sort of thing acceptable?

 

I would say not, but each to their own.

[Conrod]

Does that matter? Without his DNA being on the database he wouldn't have suffered the indignity of being hauled out of his home, handcuffed, and accused of a crime he had nothing to do with. Are you saying the kid should be happy that happened to him because somehow the Police having his DNA is of benefit in crime-solving? Quite the opposite. Them having his DNA made them suspect him just because his DNA was present at the scene. No other evidence, just his DNA. Wasted Police time and money, and possibly ongoing damage to the boy's reputation among his neighbours and possibly beyond, if there are any gossips among them.

I'm happy to swap one person's indignity for the chances that a potential multiple rapist or killer might be arrested after just one such crime.

 

Maybe I'm in the wrong for seeing it like that.

[sharrowman]

Conrod, can we agree it is less likely than I think and more likely than you think?