Seven Noachide Laws

[flamingjimmy]

Why are we talking about Noah as if he actually existed anyway?

 

Besides, some of those laws are illiberal and also there are some glaring omissions.

 

Firstly, where is the prohibition of slavery and rape? Two of the greatest scourges humanity is capable of?

 

And also, prohibiting idol worship and blasphemy, as well as trying to control the private sexual behavior of consenting adults, is intolerable in a free society.

 

All in all, I'd say they're a pretty poor set of rules to judge other ideologies next to.

[SHsheff]

Well, not quite. The Seven apply to everyone- Noah was not a Jew, as Judaism dates only from Mount Sinai many years later.

 

Hmmm, ok, but the Seven only 'apply to everyone' if you're Jewish or believe in Jewish doctrine (which presuamably makes you either Jewish or a lapsed Jew, if such a thing were possible):

 

"The Jewish idea is that the Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. The Torah (as explained in the Talmud - Sanhedrin 58b) presents seven mitzvot for non-Jews to observe. These seven laws are the pillars of human civilization, and are named the "Seven Laws of Noah," since all humans are descended from Noah." http://www.aish.com/w/nj/ (from the page linked by the OP)

 

....therefore, if you aren't Jewish and/or you don't believe that 'all humans are descended from Noah' you aren't going to subscribe to a set of Laws that call for a leap of faith before you can agree with them.

 

Anyway, I'm only googling all this, the same as most other posters on the thread, probably. As I indicated before, rather than get into circular arguments about the premise that you posted, it might be more interesting to know what prompted your OP.

 

Are you Jewish?

[andyofborg]

Why are we talking about Noah as if he actually existed anyway?

 

Besides, some of those laws are illiberal and also there are some glaring omissions.

 

Firstly, where is the prohibition of slavery and rape? Two of the greatest scourges humanity is capable of?

 

the idea that slavery and rape is a scourge is a rather modern one....

 

for much of human history slavery and rape (particularly of the losing side in a war) was quite socially acceptable.

 

 

And also, prohibiting idol worship and blasphemy, as well as trying to control the private sexual behavior of consenting adults, is intolerable in a free society.

 

 

the laws proscribe sexual immorality, if all the adults involved (and adults who are not actively involved but would be affected by the acts) are truely consenting then you could probably argue that they are not immoral

[flamingjimmy]

the idea that slavery and rape is a scourge is a rather modern one....

 

for much of human history slavery and rape (particularly of the losing side in a war) was quite socially acceptable.

yes... and? That's rather my point.

 

the laws proscribe sexual immorality, if all the adults involved (and adults who are not actively involved but would be affected by the acts) are truely consenting then you could probably argue that they are not immoral

Where the noachide law says 'no sexual immorality' it is without a doubt including sex outside marriage and male homosexuality.

 

If you want to change the meaning of their words then its not really the noachide law anymore, it is something else. To them sexual immorality definitely included those things.

 

EDIT: In fact if you follow the links in the OP you can read about exactly what was meant by the no sexual immorality rule right here, according to jewish law:

 

A prohibition on dwelling on lascivious or immoral thoughts.

A prohibition on staring at members of the opposite sex, particularly at the reproductive anatomy.

A requirement to keep most of one's body clothed in respectable clothing.

A requirement to avoid the company of uncouth individuals and avoid frequenting places where an atmosphere of levity and depravity prevails.

A prohibition on looking at pictures or scenes that will be sexually arousing.

A prohibition on touching a person of the opposite sex, especially in a lingering arousing manner. See Negiah.

A prohibition on wearing the clothing of a member of the opposite sex.

A prohibition on looking at animals copulating.

A prohibition on erotically hugging (chibuk) or kissing (nishuk) one's spouse in public,

A prohibition on sexual contact or touching between spouses when the wife is a niddah ("menstruant") or has not immersed in a mikvah following the niddah period.

A prohibition on seclusion with a person of the opposite sex who is not a spouse or close relative (Yichud)

A requirement that men and women be separated during prayer, dancing, and on certain other occasions (Mechitza)

A prohibition on hotza'at zera levatala -- "secreting semen in vain" by men. There is no equivalent prohibition for women since there is no secretion. However, masturbation by women is considered to be a lewd act and is thus included in the general commandment "And you shall be holy".

A prohibition on sex between men, or with any type of animal, or with a corpse.

 

They put male homosexuality on a par with bestiality and necrophilia, as well as throwing in a rule about thought crimes.

 

What a lovely set of rules they are.

[andyofborg]

yes... and? That's rather my point.

 

Where the noachide law says 'no sexual immorality' it is without a doubt including sex outside marriage and male homosexuality.

 

 

maybe, maybe not, who knows what is meant, there isn't and hasn't been a consistent view and single view within judaism certainly about homosexuality and probably about sex outside of marriage too.