15000 Shelf stacking apprenticeships, government jobs plan

[chem1st]

Professor Alison Wolf reviewed education policy for the coalition government and says that the very term ‘apprenticeship’ is in danger of being debased as the Tories push to reach their target of 3m apprenticeships by 2020.

 

“A huge number of these apprenticeships are not in traditional skilled occupations and they’re in areas where it’s really not obvious what it is that they are really gaining by way of specific demanding vocational skills,” says Professor Wolf.

 

“If you want to get apprenticeship numbers, the way to do it is for them to be cheap and pointless. The point will come when instead of queuing up for apprenticeships, young people will say, 'no way'.”

 

Alex Harding was a retail apprentice at Next and worked there for a year. When he started he was paid just £2.65, the minimum wage for apprentices at the time, although he was treated “more like an employee than an apprentice.”

 

Harding, who received around £100 a week, says that he got little one-on-one training and often felt like cheap labour. At the end of his apprenticeship he was offered a contract for just 15 hours a week, spread over a number of days.

 

“It was a bit of an insult,” he says. His impression was that Next would “prefer to churn out another apprentice.”

 

Over £1.5bn was spent by the government on apprenticeship training last year, but serious concerns have been raised about the quality of provision across the sector.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/14126955.Retail_giant_Next_suspends_government_funded_apprenticeship_scheme_after_a_damning_Ofsted_report/

 

Also covered in the channel 4 programme broadcast tonight.

[Anna B]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/14126955.Retail_giant_Next_suspends_government_funded_apprenticeship_scheme_after_a_damning_Ofsted_report/

 

Also covered in the channel 4 programme broadcast tonight.

 

The 'Dispatches' TV programme ('Low wage Britain,' Monday 7th Dec 8.0pm Channel 4) was extremely illuminating for all the wrong reasons.

 

It highlighted the move to official government backed apprenticeships in 'Bar work', 'Laundry and dry cleaning,' 'shop floor retail' and 'fish frying' in a chip shop, (I kid you not..) These were the kind of apprenticeships on offer, all at half the minimum wage, and according to the participants, offering little or no actual training.

 

It doesn't need saying that these jobs have no real need of 'apprenticeships.'

 

In other words they were doing exactly the same work as any new worker, but for half the money. The government gives the company £1,500 for each new apprentice. They weren't even guaranteed a job at the end of it, as it was cheaper for the employers to simply take on new apprentices at the lower wage. They were saving a fortune...

 

Meanwhile there is still a serious shortage of labour in proper trades such as building, as the government takes no account of where the shortages actually are. Apprenticeships in these areas have gone down as they require a real investment of time and money, and it's cheaper and simpler to get trained labour from abroad.

 

What is the point of '3 million apprenticeships' if they are not helping young people into skilled, well paid jobs, and they are not targeting the the areas where there are serious skill shortages?

Edited December 7, 2015 by Anna B

[lottiecass]

Useless training such as this is a waste of time and an insult to the young,I hope they tell them where to shove this "job".

[ECCOnoob]

If they are sat on their arse doing nothing except waiting till the next dole day then ANY training is useful.

 

Apprentice pay is better than NO pay at all.

 

Anything that shows someone is capable of getting out of bed in a morning before Jeremy Kyle time and actually DO SOMETHING all goes to contribute to their chances of getting a full employment role.

 

Anything that goes towards contributing to society is useful. Nobody is owed a living. Its well and truly time to stop all these "wont get out of bed for that" and "I might as well stay on the dole for that" attitudes.

 

2 candidates apply for a store assistant role.

 

One has done nothing at all other than be on the dole for 6 months. Another did a few weeks/months unpaid or apprentice pay in a charity store/other retailer having hands on experience.

 

Which one is the company likely to choose. Its not rocket science is it

 

Some of us remember a time before people had the luxury of a minimum wage. Some of us remember a time when these allegedly disgraceful "apprentice" wages were what full time people earned. Everyone has to start their working life somewhere. I had many years as a teaboy/general office dogsbody before I finally started to get my foot on the ladder. Im sure I could have just sat at home like some of my mates claiming my dole. I wasn't pocketing much more than them on salary at the time. HOWEVER, after a few years I built up my skills and started to earn the money that I deserved. By that time some of my late starter mates were finding life not so easy without that shop floor entry. Why cant they earn what I was on I would hear some of them say.

 

Well, life does not get handed to you on a plate.

Edited December 8, 2015 by ECCOnoob

[Anna B]

If they are sat on their arse doing nothing except waiting till the next dole day then ANY training is useful.

 

Apprentice pay is better than NO pay at all.

 

Anything that shows someone is capable of getting out of bed in a morning before Jeremy Kyle time and actually DO SOMETHING all goes to contribute to their chances of getting a full employment role.

 

Anything that goes towards contributing to society is useful. Nobody is owed a living. Its well and truly time to stop all these "wont get out of bed for that" and "I might as well stay on the dole for that" attitudes.

 

2 candidates apply for a store assistant role.

 

One has done nothing at all other than be on the dole for 6 months. Another did a few weeks/months unpaid or apprentice pay in a charity store/other retailer having hands on experience.

 

Which one is the company likely to choose. Its not rocket science is it

 

Some of us remember a time before people had the luxury of a minimum wage. Some of us remember a time when these allegedly disgraceful "apprentice" wages were what full time people earned. Everyone has to start their working life somewhere. I had many years as a teaboy/general office dogsbody before I finally started to get my foot on the ladder. Im sure I could have just sat at home like some of my mates claiming my dole. I wasn't pocketing much more than them on salary at the time. HOWEVER, after a few years I built up my skills and started to earn the money that I deserved. By that time some of my late starter mates were finding life not so easy without that shop floor entry. Why cant they earn what I was on I would hear some of them say.

 

Well, life does not get handed to you on a plate.

 

Surely apprenticeships should be addressing the serious skills shortages we now have in this country. We need more artisans and craftspeople. The money should be targeted at these areas of genuine need otherwise it is simply a waste of money.

 

This is just another example of the government making the right noises but not backing it up with the right action, misleading the public into thinking it is dealing with a problem when it clearly isn't..

[ECCOnoob]

Surely apprenticeships should be addressing the serious skills shortages we now have in this country. We need more artisans and craftspeople. The money should be targeted at these areas of genuine need otherwise it is simply a waste of money.

 

This is just another example of the government making the right noises but not backing it up with the right action, misleading the public into thinking it is dealing with a problem when it clearly isn't..

 

But where is the demand for these artisans and craftspeople?? Where are all these companies with hundreds or thousands of jobs desperately seeking candidates in those sectors?

 

It would be lovely to think that the country could back to its throbbing manufacturing and producing heart but lets face facts. Its not in demand is it. Its not a mass shortage is it.

 

Those jobs are gone. They are being completed abroad, cheaper, faster and more competently than this country could ever dream of imaging.

 

Our thirst for the bottom line on everything and anything. Our ravenous consumer demands for everything now at the lowest price. Our disposable society with everything from food to clothing to electronics is never going to bring back British Made.

 

Just take a look around at the high street. What are people buying? What is their staple purchases? What is their motivation for choosing such purchases.

 

Artisan and specialist is all well and good for certain items. Its not a viable business for mass employment.

 

Do you know what is thriving though. Certain retailers and the service industries. Makes sense to me to have apprentice roles in those industries.

[Anna B]

But where is the demand for these artisans and craftspeople?? Where are all these companies with hundreds or thousands of jobs desperately seeking candidates in those sectors?

 

It would be lovely to think that the country could back to its throbbing manufacturing and producing heart but lets face facts. Its not in demand is it. Its not a mass shortage is it.

 

Those jobs are gone. They are being completed abroad, cheaper, faster and more competently than this country could ever dream of imaging.

 

Our thirst for the bottom line on everything and anything. Our ravenous consumer demands for everything now at the lowest price. Our disposable society with everything from food to clothing to electronics is never going to bring back British Made.

 

Just take a look around at the high street. What are people buying? What is their staple purchases? What is their motivation for choosing such purchases.

 

Artisan and specialist is all well and good for certain items. Its not a viable business for mass employment.

 

Do you know what is thriving though. Certain retailers and the service industries. Makes sense to me to have apprentice roles in those industries.

 

I understand the building trade is crying out for skilled people - bricklayers, plasterers, carpenters, plumbers etc. and the engineering sector is also short of properly trained, qualified people.

 

Since when did we need apprenticeships in shop work?

 

Anyway, the people who have actually undergone these apprenticeships have said they were not worthy of the name. They received very little actual training and were out on the shopfloor doing the same job from day one alongside other workers, the only difference being that they were working for half the pay.

 

This is just exploitation, dressed up to make Cameron look good.

[woodmally]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20110110/tuk-jobs-plans-outlined-at-no-10-summit-6323e80.html

 

This is insane.

 

15000 apprenticeships at ASDA. (Apprenticeship pay is £2.50 per hour)

 

How do you reckon it will work?

 

Maybe you can get an NVQ 1 in scanning barcodes, an NVQ 2 in shelf stacking and a HND in asking people if they are over 18.

 

Let us not forget that supermarkets are killing local business, and they do so by supplying goods at a lower unit cost because they use less labour.

 

Jobs, jobs, jobs can be translated into unemployment and working poverty.

 

These people are long term unemployed so its good experience to get them back into the world of work? What is the problem with shelf stacking? Its a job that needs doing. Those who genuinely want to find work will use it as a stepping stone to get experience to get them back into employment. Those that dont, the benefit street lot and the likes of white Dee will have to do some graft for the first time in their lives.

[Alan Ladd]

These people are long term unemployed so its good experience to get them back into the world of work? What is the problem with shelf stacking? Its a job that needs doing. Those who genuinely want to find work will use it as a stepping stone to get experience to get them back into employment. Those that dont, the benefit street lot and the likes of white Dee will have to do some graft for the first time in their lives.

 

Absolutely correct.

[lottiecass]

These people are long term unemployed so its good experience to get them back into the world of work? What is the problem with shelf stacking? Its a job that needs doing. Those who genuinely want to find work will use it as a stepping stone to get experience to get them back into employment. Those that dont, the benefit street lot and the likes of white Dee will have to do some graft for the first time in their lives.

 

Back into employment? some have never worked only on useless schemes like this.Why don't they just call it work for welfare and have done with it.Why do some people think that everyone on unemployment is like the benefit street lot,they are not.I am no liberal either but to expect the young to do this or be sanctioned is wrong.Cheap labour for asda,when they have enough young working for them already.Of course we need people working in supermarkets but you do not need training to stack shelves.