LordChaverly Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Indeed had he been a construction worker and dropped the extinguisher on someone's head then, no one would have gone to prison and if he was Peter Walton the developer responsible would have faced a £1 fine because the company was in financial difficulties. Are you really likening an industrial accident to the malicious and potentially lethal behaviour of this hooligan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Are you really likening an industrial accident to the malicious and potentially lethal behaviour of this hooligan? Yes. When a manifestly excessive sentence is passed it's entirely reasonable to compare it with cases with much more serious consequences but light penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Are you really likening an industrial accident to the malicious and potentially lethal behaviour of this hooligan? Yes. As Spindrift said the comparison is obvious to make. I am not sure that malice is a factor in either case. And although, the example I have given was an accident (in that he wasn't actually thrown off the scaffolding) the employers' behaviour was not "in the heat of the moment" it was a matter of considered and calculated criminal decisions that were both potentially lethal and furthermore actually lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordChaverly Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I am not sure that malice is a factor in either case. And although, the example I have given was an accident (in that he wasn't actually thrown off the scaffolding) the employers' behaviour was not "in the heat of the moment" it was a matter of considered and calculated criminal decisions that were both potentially lethal and furthermore actually lethal. well, thank goodness that the judge in this case thought differently, and jailed him for serious violence and violent disorder. There is an obvious difference between negligence and violence, even where the consequences might be similar in some cases. Violence implies malice (to people or property) and the act of throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof into a crowd of policemen below is without doubt malicious. My only criticism of the judge is that he did not impose a much stiffer penalty, which would have been richly deserved in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 well, thank goodness that the judge in this case thought differently, and jailed him for serious violence and violent disorder. There is an obvious difference between negligence and violence, even where the consequences might be similar in some cases. Violence implies malice (to people or property) and the act of throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof into a crowd of policemen below is without doubt malicious. My only criticism of the judge is that he did not impose a much stiffer penalty, which would have been richly deserved in this case. Its not clear to me there was any malice, did he not aim for a gap? That implies the absence of malice, criminal stupidity, yes. Malice, no. Maybe he should have received a tougher sentence.... but not before the criminal neglect that kills and injures hundreds of people a year going about earning a living for themselves is dealt with just as harshly. An employer getting their workers to skip basic safety should be held responsible for the often lethal consequences of their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaimani Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 well, thank goodness that the judge in this case thought differently, and jailed him for serious violence and violent disorder. There is an obvious difference between negligence and violence, even where the consequences might be similar in some cases. Violence implies malice (to people or property) and the act of throwing a fire extinguisher off a roof into a crowd of policemen below is without doubt malicious. My only criticism of the judge is that he did not impose a much stiffer penalty, which would have been richly deserved in this case. M'lord, would you say not buying right equipment, not training staff right, over working them to the point of fatigue etc knowing what this might cause is as much malicious as it is negligent? yet, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone ever locked up for these 'industrial accidents'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordChaverly Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 M'lord, would you say not buying right equipment, not training staff right, over working them to the point of fatigue etc knowing what this might cause is as much malicious as it is negligent? yet, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone ever locked up for these 'industrial accidents'. I have no problem with condign sentences being meted out to cases of serious negligence, leading to industrial accidents. However, this is a totally different issue and has no bearing upon a case involving serious, and potentially lethal, violent disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I have no problem with condign sentences being meted out to cases of serious negligence, leading to industrial accidents. However, this is a totally different issue and has no bearing upon a case involving serious, and potentially lethal, violent disorder. http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/213612-drunk-driver-jailed-over-horror-car-crash/ http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/news/Drunk-driver-jailed/article-1073308-detail/article.html http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-drunk-driver-jailed.6027805.jp http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/drunk-driver-jailed-over-charity-biker-death/4500.html http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Drunk+driver+jailed+child+death/3823744/story.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12023922 These all got shorter sentences than this lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/213612-drunk-driver-jailed-over-horror-car-crash/ http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/news/Drunk-driver-jailed/article-1073308-detail/article.html http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Leeds-drunk-driver-jailed.6027805.jp http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/drunk-driver-jailed-over-charity-biker-death/4500.html http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Drunk+driver+jailed+child+death/3823744/story.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12023922 These all got shorter sentences than this lad. The second one in particular is disgusting and highlights what a stupid, ridiculous sentence the student got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 The second one in particular is disgusting and highlights what a stupid, ridiculous sentence the student got. The sentances handed down to some motorists are ridiculous, but that doesn't make the sentance given to this thug wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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