atticus Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Ken Clarke is on borrowed time,the right wing tories aint gonna be happy about this. Soft on crime...soft on the causes of crime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan_Vesta Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 All Clarke will be doing is directing the judiciary to hand down less custodial sentences in favour of community punishments/supervision. The problem with this is that is that the probation service are suffering similar swingeing cuts themselves. They've been doing this since government discovered in 2006 that their rampant legislating meant than with more laws came more crimes, they were forced to use court and police cells under Operation Safeguard in a bid to house the burgeoning criminal population and even put the ill fated ECL scheme in a bid to free up places. So we've gone from a position 5 years ago where we were unable to house those committed by the courts to where we supposedly have 5000 spaces? I would hazard a guess that the majority of the 5000 spaces have been created by the wholesale destruction by rioting prisoners - Recent events such as Moorland, Ford, Swaleside, Littlehay & Warren Hill would attest to this. What I can assure you, here and now, is that this is the tip of the iceberg. There will be more jail closures, more tender awards to the likes of Calyx, Serco & G4S. There will be more riots. How long until the government realises that they can no longer do things like this on the cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 All Clarke will be doing is directing the judiciary to hand down less custodial sentences in favour of community punishments/supervision. The problem with this is that is that the probation service are suffering similar swingeing cuts themselves. They've been doing this since government discovered in 2006 that their rampant legislating meant than with more laws came more crimes, they were forced to use court and police cells under Operation Safeguard in a bid to house the burgeoning criminal population and even put the ill fated ECL scheme in a bid to free up places. So we've gone from a position 5 years ago where we were unable to house those committed by the courts to where we supposedly have 5000 spaces? I would hazard a guess that the majority of the 5000 spaces have been created by the wholesale destruction by rioting prisoners - Recent events such as Moorland, Ford, Swaleside, Littlehay & Warren Hill would attest to this. What I can assure you, here and now, is that this is the tip of the iceberg. There will be more jail closures, more tender awards to the likes of Calyx, Serco & G4S. There will be more riots. How long until the government realises that they can no longer do things like this on the cheap? I completely agree with your comments and I'm glad to see someone who actually understands the reality of how our prison population has exploded over the past 20 years point these issues out. I would add that another possible reason for the number of prison spaces currently available is possibly linked to the last recession. All new prison spaces in England and Wales are currently made available through PFI partnerships between the government and private companies. During the recession when credit dried up the tax payer ended up bailing out many private companies involved in these PFI schemes with loans (to the tune of £200bn). The government can't afford to finance both the public and the private side of these schemes and so they are beginning to fall apart. I'm pleased that those prisoners who deserved a community sentence rather than a prison term are more likely to receive a just punishment. Locking people up for profit is a wholly disgusting and immoral system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carosio Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If it's true about the comfy conditions that exist in our jails, hardened criminals are going to be disappointed with this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan_Vesta Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Locking people up for profit is a wholly disgusting and immoral system. Cheers - I believe that Mr Jack Straw shared a similar sentiment ........ And then went and did it anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laineyiow Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There are 5,000 places empty in prison - would the OP like to pay for empty buildings then...? Or is it more fun to rant and rail and call names in the hope it makes your argument seem more reasoned? I find this quite strange as the prison authorities always use the excuse that all the prisons are suffering from over-crowding and that is why prisoners cannot be transferred to other prisons even if they need to be in order to do courses that the Parole Board insist on them doing before they even consider them for parole, so if there are 5,000 empty places in the prisons why is there so much over-crowding? And why are prisons having to double cell prisoners as they don't have enough cells to house them in? Something doesn't seem to add up somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12178498 Three prisons with a total capacity of 850 inmates are to close ... As of last weekend, the jail population was 82,991 in England and Wales, almost 5,000 places below capacity. Don't you think keeping this many spare places is a waste of money? not if they keep locking up first time previously of good character one moment of madness student offenders no, theyll be gone in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan_Vesta Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 not if they keep locking up first time previously of good character one moment of madness student offenders no, theyll be gone in no time I can show you plenty of people who were 'of previously good character' who went on to commit violent crime. This young man did something so bad that his own Mother shopped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I can show you plenty of people who were 'of previously good character' who went on to commit violent crime. This young man did something so bad that his own Mother shopped him. thats not "so" bad, it was purely cos he was splashed all over the telly and papers, she had no choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 not if they keep locking up first time previously of good character one moment of madness student offenders no, theyll be gone in no time I can show you plenty of people who were 'of previously good character' who went on to commit violent crime. This young man did something so bad that his own Mother shopped him. Hmmm. I think I'd have to go with Swan here Mel, he really does know what he's on about - and I have a great deal of symapathy both with the lad who chucked the extinguisher, but more particularly for his mother, who did a very difficult and brave thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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