Frank Sidney Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 He was practising the original form of birth control. What in an allotment? I wondered why my dad spent so much time down there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaphoria Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Yet Jesus (PBUH) said that he did not intend one jot of the law should pass away...? I think you are referring to the verse Mathew 5:18 which concludes by saying until all is accomplished. When Jesus died on the cross he said “It is finished” (or “accomplished”) See John 19:30 Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil.” (Mathew 5:17) And in Galatians 3:24-26…. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. So, as I understand it the laws of the Old Testament had their importance, they ended at the crucifixion, where Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins, and the spirit of faith in Jesus is now what becomes reconcilliation with God in Christian belief. As in…we are not saved by righteousness to laws but by faith alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 How many Jews were there on Noah's big boat? There wern't any Jews on the Ark. Noah was born in 3836 B.C. while Abraham from whom the Jews are descended was born in 2164 B.C. Exactly! And did the OT laws apply to Noah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Exactly! And did the OT laws apply to Noah? Of course they applied, God's laws that is; not the man-made Jewish laws which came later. This is what I have been saying. We need to reject man's laws which includes the false religions and the cults and follow God's universal laws which, like the command to love our neighbour regardless of cult or creed can be found across the world. There are other religions like the Worsboro Baptist Church, Jehovah Witness and Islam who do not preach peace or love of neighbour unless people belong to their particular religion and the teaching of these false cults should be ignored but like Noah we should be obedient to the One True God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezer Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 There wern't any Jews on the Ark. Noah was born in 3836 B.C. while Abraham from whom the Jews are descended was born in 2164 B.C. Its almost as if you think the story about Noah really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Of course they applied, God's laws that is; not the man-made Jewish laws which came later. This is what I have been saying. We need to reject man's laws which includes the false religions and the cults and follow God's universal laws which, like the command to love our neighbour regardless of cult or creed can be found across the world. There are other religions like the Worsboro Baptist Church, Jehovah Witness and Islam who do not preach peace or love of neighbour unless people belong to their particular religion and the teaching of these false cults should be ignored but like Noah we should be obedient to the One True God. Although those laws are recorded in detail in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, it is evident that they were the same laws that were given to Noah and Abraham, and yet you continue to assert that these laws only applied to the Jews. It's almost as if you want gods laws to be in-line with the man-made ones, rather than the other way round. Furthermore, it simply does not make any sense to think that the moral and dietary laws would apply to some of God's people and not the others. Although it is possible to take metaphoria's reading of The Bible to explain why the laws no longer apply, it is also possible to read it and conclude that the debt Jesus paid was the sin debt, that he shed his blood because without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sin, that he did not abolish the law. Even if you accept the former rather than the latter, it is then a giant leap to decide what laws still apply and which ones don't. Remember this as you are about to tuck into your next bacon sandwich. If you consider yourself a Christian then you should consider the possibility that God's laws have been twisted by foolish men, or the influence of Satan. Since the validity of God's OT laws cannot be determined through reason, a Christian should wager as though they still apply. If you decide to follow the OT laws and it turns out that metaphoria's interpretation is correct, and they no longer apply, then what have you lost? Nothing, perhaps just the taste of pork, the comfort of mixed fibre clothing, and the company of menstruating women, but basically just a bit of inconvenience. Indeed, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose by following Pascal's God's rules. Go on, you know it makes sense, otherwise you are just playing at being a Christian, more likely to make God angry than an atheist like me who knows no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (with cite) 1) You can't wear clothing made of mixed fibres. It has to be one fibre or the other. cite? (Leviticus 19:19) 2) You can't eat a certain section of an animals hip where the tendon is, that's forbidden. Genesis 32:32 3) You can eat fish with scales, but not fish without scales, and you can't eat shellfish. cite ?(Leviticus 11:9–12) 4) You can't eat an animal which you have found already dead, (IE roadkill) 5) if you are lame, if you have crushed or missing testes, or you have leprosy, you cannot be a priest. Deuteronomy 23:1 6) You cannot travel more than a certain distance on the sabbath. 2,000 cubits . (cite? (Leviticus 19:19) ) 7) oh, and eating pig meat (pork ham bacon) "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 2) Must have been Phil Collins. Are Deuteronomy and Leviticus Best sellers ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Although those laws are recorded in detail in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, it is evident that they were the same laws that were given to Noah and Abraham, and yet you continue to assert that these laws only applied to the Jews. It's almost as if you want gods laws to be in-line with the man-made ones, rather than the other way round. Furthermore, it simply does not make any sense to think that the moral and dietary laws would apply to some of God's people and not the others. Although it is possible to take metaphoria's reading of The Bible to explain why the laws no longer apply, it is also possible to read it and conclude that the debt Jesus paid was the sin debt, that he shed his blood because without the shedding of blood there can be no remission of sin, that he did not abolish the law. Even if you accept the former rather than the latter, it is then a giant leap to decide what laws still apply and which ones don't. Remember this as you are about to tuck into your next bacon sandwich. If you consider yourself a Christian then you should consider the possibility that God's laws have been twisted by foolish men, or the influence of Satan. Since the validity of God's OT laws cannot be determined through reason, a Christian should wager as though they still apply. If you decide to follow the OT laws and it turns out that metaphoria's interpretation is correct, and they no longer apply, then what have you lost? Nothing, perhaps just the taste of pork, the comfort of mixed fibre clothing, and the company of menstruating women, but basically just a bit of inconvenience. Indeed, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose by following Pascal's God's rules. Go on, you know it makes sense, otherwise you are just playing at being a Christian, more likely to make God angry than an atheist like me who knows no better. Your chronology is wrong. 1. The first sign we have of things not being right in the world was the disobedience in the Garden of Eden. 2. This was followed by the murder of Abel. 3. Then in Genesis six in the time of Noah we read the people had become corrupt, wicked and violent. 4. Then long after Noah the Ten Commandments were given to Moses who was the leader of the Israelites. The Jewish nation had not been established at that point 5. When the Jewish nation was established much later, it is then we get the 613 Jewish Mitzvah laws and we can read about the effect of these laws when we read about all the wickedness, violence and murder that was committed by the Jews against other people. These are not God’s laws. As time has gone by humankind has become more violent and not long ago someone posted the seven laws listed in the Tosefta and the Talmud that go back to Noah, long before the Jews ever existed. 1. Prohibition of Idolatry 2. Prohibition of Murder 3. Prohibition of Theft 4. Prohibition of Sexual immorality 5. Prohibition of Blasphemy 6. Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive 7. Establishment of law courts The Jews veered away from these laws as we can see from their later violence and idolatry, the Golden Calf being only one example. When Jesus said MY law shall not pass away he was speaking of the universal law and not the Jewish laws which were for one nation at one particular time which ended with the death of Jesus. What is the Law of God? It is this: "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment. And the second is like it. You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and Prophets" (Mat 22:37-40) Understand this, Where there is love there is no hate, where there is love there is no murder, wickedness or corruption and all the negative laws that say don’t do this and don’t do the other can all be done away with, for ALL the laws hang on the two commandments to Love God and to love others. The law of love will never pass away. People will disobey it but God’s law of love will always remain to the betterment of everyone who obeys it. Not eating pork and not wearing cloths made of mixed fibre have nothing to do with the law of God which is to love our neighbour as ourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Because it is a common theme running through the whole Bible starting with Sodom and Gomorrah. the sin of Ssodom and Gomorrah was, IIRC,their inhospitability toward the strangers, not "men with men". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 He was practising the original form of birth control. That's striking me as extremely strange:- if it was a sin then why is "Vatican Roulette" the only permissible form of birth control allowed by the Pope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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