Urgent Help Needed - DO NOT RESUSCITATE

[Dozy]

Cold and heartless to write it onto their notes though. Regardless of reasons and assessments. The heart has gone from medicine? Discuss.

 

But how else are doctors supposed to know?

[pattricia]

Many people who finish up with Alzheimers tell their relatives when they are of sound mind,that if they were ever in this position, that they would not want to be resuscitated.

[hodgepig66]

Many people who finish up with Alzheimers tell their relatives when they are of sound mind,that if they were ever in this position, that they would not want to be resuscitated.

 

Thankyou that is my point,or dying from cancer,heart failure etc......

Maybe sometimes peoples judgements are not always in the interests of the ill person,because selfishly they do not want to lose that person,so therfore ask for them to be kept alive.....If i had no hope i would not want to be in pain or suffer any longer than i needed to....

[Blondie73]

My 18 year old daughter has Juvenile Huntington's disease,a degenerative terminal illness.I am sooooooooo dreading the day when I have to make that decision. : (

[Daven]

I have recently agreed for a DNAR order to be attached to my Mums notes - she has Alzheimers disease and has had several strokes. To resuscitate her would be cruel and undignified. As a medical professional, I don't believe that most of the general public understand what 'resuscitation' means - a very aggressive, invasive, messy and undignified event which I would not dream of putting my elderly and much loved Mum through.

I can understand why relatives wish their loved ones to be resuscitated - but it is not always in the patients best interests. I believe that families should question their motives for denying their loved one of a dignified and peaceful death.

Kashul - I hope you are able to resolve your difficulties.

[Darth Vader]

Interesting choice of words, Daven. Whilst one of my relatives was trying to resuscitate my other, and we were all screaming for the crash team to be sent, the nurse felt instead, she would stand over proceedings shouting, 'let her die with some dignity, let her die with some dignity' - even though we'd never seen this nurse before and we'd been by her bed side for 7 days and nights. Of course, she must have been able to see the bigger picture clearer than us.

 

I don't see much dignity being allowed here:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8324569/NHS-shamed-over-callous-treatment-of-elderly.html

 

 

EDIT - I do actually appreciate what you're saying, but in our case, it was clear to us, that although elderly, our relative still wanted to do everything to hold on to life, and still had so much to live for, unlike many of the assumptions we met by medical staff.

[sccsux]

Discuss.

 

Let's not.

 

Let's leave this thread for the OP's original intention of getting help.

[AGB1]

EDIT - I do actually appreciate what you're saying, but in our case, it was clear to us, that although elderly, our relative still wanted to do everything to hold on to life, and still had so much to live for, unlike many of the assumptions we met by medical staff.

 

I feel inclined to make a few comments.

This is from someone who has been a member of the 'crash team' and who has attempted 100's maybe even 1000's of resuscitations.

 

First point - hardly anyone survives a cradiac arrest in hospital. If you're young, relatively fit and have one of a few 'reversible' conditions then the odds are slightly better. If you're old, have comorbidities and your heart has stopped then the chances of you leaving hospital and having any quality of life are miniscule.

Doctors know these odds. From experience this is how they put in place DNAR orders.

 

Second point - when the 'arrest' team arrives, your relative will be on the bed/floor stripped naked in front of strangers. People will be attempting to put tubes into their windpipe, people will be attempting to put large needles into their arms/feet and probably groin.

Someone will be putting their weight into your relative's chest - good CPR always breaks ribs and sometimes the sternum ( breastbone).

The patient often vomits and may soil themselves during this process which will last 20 minutes or so until we stop.

The nurses then come along as we all trundle off to see the devastation we have left.

There is no dignity in this.

The dignity comes from people being made comfortable, people having their families close by and knowing that they wont be subjected to the terror above. Everyone has to die, this is a much more dignified way to die.

This is why DNAR forms are used.

[Daven]

I feel inclined to make a few comments.

This is from someone who has been a member of the 'crash team' and who has attempted 100's maybe even 1000's of resuscitations.

 

First point - hardly anyone survives a cradiac arrest in hospital. If you're young, relatively fit and have one of a few 'reversible' conditions then the odds are slightly better. If you're old, have comorbidities and your heart has stopped then the chances of you leaving hospital and having any quality of life are miniscule.

Doctors know these odds. From experience this is how they put in place DNAR orders.

 

Second point - when the 'arrest' team arrives, your relative will be on the bed/floor stripped naked in front of strangers. People will be attempting to put tubes into their windpipe, people will be attempting to put large needles into their arms/feet and probably groin.

Someone will be putting their weight into your relative's chest - good CPR always breaks ribs and sometimes the sternum ( breastbone).

The patient often vomits and may soil themselves during this process which will last 20 minutes or so until we stop.

The nurses then come along as we all trundle off to see the devastation we have left.

There is no dignity in this.

The dignity comes from people being made comfortable, people having their families close by and knowing that they wont be subjected to the terror above. Everyone has to die, this is a much more dignified way to die.

This is why DNAR forms are used.

 

You have said exactly what I was trying to. You have explained very well what happens in a cardiac arrest situation. The romantic idea of resuscitation being performed and the patient responding and asking for a cup of tea just doesn't happen. Having also been present and involved in very many 'crash' calls over the 30 or more years of being a qualified nurse - I can only recall a handful where the patient has survived. There is no dignity in having your loved one put through the necessary aggressive and invasive action which is resuscitation.

Everyone has their opinions and motives for demanding that doctors do what they believe is 'best' for their loved one - but I. for one, would not which a loved one of mine being put through this indignity and trauma if it was thought by the professionals that any attempt would be futile.

This is my opinion. which I am entitled to, and in no way affects my professional practice.

[Darth Vader]

Thanks for the informative comments, AGB1, Daven.

 

I hope it doesn't happen to any relative of yours, but you might feel differently, as it's happening.