Where do saying come from.

[Lucifer]

We say, don't welsh on your friends and scotch a rumour straight away, where do these sayings come from and is there one about the english and irish?.

[Chris_Sleeps]

I've stolen this.

 

What is the origin of the verb "to scotch" as in " to scotch a rumour"?

 

Scotch: To Scotch a rumour is to expose a rumour. Scotch here has nothing to do with Scotland, but rather the old French word "escocher" - to cut.

 

It's ambiguous, though, because there's a line in Macbeth: "We have scotched [i.e. wounded] the snake, not killed it". Incidentally, the word "butterscotch" contains the same word - the sweetmeat was made out of sugar and butter and poured into a pan to set; before it set, it was "scotched" horizontally and vertically so that when it was cold it could be broken into squares along those lines. (VSD)

 

Isn't the 2nd verb 'to welch'?

[Plain Talker]

I've stolen this.

 

What is the origin of the verb "to scotch" as in " to scotch a rumour"?

 

Scotch: To Scotch a rumour is to expose a rumour. Scotch here has nothing to do with Scotland, but rather the old French word "escocher" - to cut.

 

It's ambiguous, though, because there's a line in Macbeth: "

We have scotched [i.e. wounded] the snake, not killed it"

. Incidentally, the word "butterscotch" contains the same word - the sweetmeat was made out of sugar and butter and poured into a pan to set; before it set, it was "scotched" horizontally and vertically so that when it was cold it could be broken into squares along those lines. (VSD)

 

Isn't the 2nd verb 'to welch'?

 

rather like the yorkshire-ism "Scutch", eh?

[Jew Boy]

rather like the yorkshire-ism "Scutch", eh?

 

I often wondered where that saying came from

[Lucifer]

I often wondered where that saying came from

 

Isn't a scutch a smack to the head in sheffield at least.

[shanes teeth]

A scutch is also a small pointed or serated hammer used to remove old pointing or mortar before re-pointing or rendering.

[Jew Boy]

Isn't a scutch a smack to the head in sheffield at least.

 

Yes, i think it is.

[HeadingNorth]

We say, don't welsh on your friends .... where do these sayings come from and is there one about the english and irish?.

 

 

Way back in the days when England had only just conquered Wales, the rule of (English) law was highly sporadic. If you owed someone money and were faced with debtor's prison - or getting beaten up by angry creditors! - you could flee to Wales, where the authorities essentially could not touch you because the law's writ did not run. Hence, "to Welsh on your debt" - not an insult to the Welsh at all, because it is not claiming that Welsh people renege on obligations as some think. It is only the English who ever literally "welshed on their debts."

 

The equivalent situation did also apply in Ireland, where the English rule applied to only Dublin and its immediate environs - an area known as the Irish Pale. (Pale is an archaic word for a boundary.)

 

Anyone who fled outside that region to avoid the law was said to be "beyond the Pale." And, again of course, it only refers to English people who took that course. They're English phrases, after all.

[HeadingNorth]

Scotch here has nothing to do with Scotland, but rather the old French word "escocher" - to cut.

 

Incidentally, the word "butterscotch" contains the same word - the sweetmeat was made out of sugar and butter and poured into a pan to set; before it set, it was "scotched" horizontally and vertically so that when it was cold it could be broken into squares along those lines. (VSD)[/indent][/i]

 

I would lay odds that this is the same origin of our word "score" for a cut; presumably the "tch" sound disappeared out of it during the middle ages. That sort of thing was happening a lot.

 

There can't be many examples of the original "scotch" still left.

[HeadingNorth]

I remember one of my ex-colleagues saying that she had been "jewed" out of something - she was horrified when she realised what she was saying, never realised that it was related to the religion/race.

 

I remember that from my youth (a long time ago!) ... and "gypped out of it" for similar reasons. One of my friends used to speak of a temper tantrum as "throwing a leppy" until she realised the origins of that one were fairly unpleasant as well.