The training of Nurses

[Miss_S_83]

JFK- I couldn't have put that better myself.

[Anna B]

Considering nurses are arguably better trained than ever, to what do you ascribe the rising tide of complaints against the nhs, disgraceful number of patients discharged suffering from malnutrition because noone has bothered to feed them, cases of MRSA, and situations like the ones that arose in that Staffordshire hospital recently?

[Miss_S_83]

These things have probably always happened and there is no excuse for them to happen whatsoever but in uni they teach you about all of these things, so you have knowledge and evidence to back up what you should practice out there on the wards/in the community. There is no use trying to say that because nurses are better trained (in the sense of they have to learn about lots of different things from psychology, sociology, social policy- to the essentials of nursing, practical taks, biology, and working with other professions),it's their fault all of the above happen. It isn't just the 'new' nurses who are responsible for all of the things you mentioned. All of that stuff is down to a number of things- poor communication being a main factor. I have seen Drs that haven't gloved/gowned up when tending to someone who is barrier nursed. I have seen Support Workers and Ward Assistants take patients trays away without really checking if the patient has eaten and if not, why not. Of course it isn't down to newly trained nurses alone- to suggest so is quite frankly, ridiculous.

 

Also, on wards don't forget that not all the nurses there are trained the 'new' way. Most are the old school ( in my experience). They also have to keep their learning up to date but obviously didn't have the 3yrs uni to do first (but most I have seen are still good nurses!). I think that working out there is the best way to learn, don't get me wrong but the work you do at uni does help, and you see how it falls into place when you are out in practice.

[Ms Macbeth]

So nurses do not have the key to the drug trolley and they do not dispense drugs they only administer them.

 

I would suggest you get your facts right Nurses dispense drugs on a doctors prescription.

 

Under the UK CC Registration Nurses are not allowed to assume the post of a junior doctor, and are not allowed to prescribe drugs.

You talk delegation do you mean that their responsibilities for basic nursing care is beneath them and pass it on to the less qualified staff, you think that is the way it should be and is acceptable.

 

I don't think so.

 

I think you need to read my earlier post. Some nurses do prescribe nowadays. My DD is currently on a course, which when successfully completed, will give her the authority to write prescriptions for her patients.

[Daven]

So nurses do not have the key to the drug trolley and they do not dispense drugs they only administer them.

 

I would suggest you get your facts right Nurses dispense drugs on a doctors prescription.

 

Under the UK CC Registration Nurses are not allowed to assume the post of a junior doctor, and are not allowed to prescribe drugs.

 

You talk delegation do you mean that their responsibilities for basic nursing care is beneath them and pass it on to the less qualified staff, you think that is the way it should be and is acceptable.

 

I don't think so.

Actually, you are wrong on a few counts here.

Registered nurses CAN prescribe if they have undertaken a prescribers course - they are MANY Registered nurses and Specialist nurses who now prescribe . The UKCC was abolished years ago - do you mean the NMC ?

Can you explain why it is wrong for a Registered nurse to delegate duties of basic care-based work to Support Workers since their role is to support trained nurses in their duties?

[Frank Sidney]

When I sarted my nurse training there were 2 levels of nurse training - Enrolled Nurse who did 2 years training and needed only basic education without any 'O' levels and Registered Nurse who did 3 years training and needed 5 'O' levels including Maths and English. Training was very much ward based and 'hands on' and all studies had to be fitted around shifts which included working nights, weekends and bank holidays. At the end of either training , both types of nurses were ready to take charge of the ward and do 'hands on' care.

Today, nurse training is a 3 year degree course which is very much classroom based, and nurses qualify without the skills to give medication, care plan let alone take charge of the ward. It is necessary for all qualified Staff Nurses to have a period of preceptorship during which they learn things that they should have learned during their 3 years training.

I have nothing but sympathy for newly qualified nurses since they are not ready to do the job they have just qualified in. It's not their fault - the training has let them down.

Support Workers now do a lot of the basic hands on nursing - this is the type of nursing that I trained to do and now have little time to do due to the vast amount of paperwork, gudelines, assessments, audits and budget planning, taking blood, cannulating, giving intravenous drugs etc which is now part of my role - such is the NHS these days.

I don't believe that there are very many qualified nurses who believe that giving bedpans and wiping bottoms is beneath them (although there are some and always have been - that hasn't changed over the years).

 

Its another example of over hyping degree courses. You don't need a degree to be a nurse. Practical experience is more important. The old system was better...

[Priorylady]

I'm a clinical nurse specialist.

I am a Nurse Independant Prescriber, as such I assess, diagnose and prescribe appropriate medications for patients within my speciality.

I also run my own nurse led clinic.

 

Being a senior nurse is about using the skills, knowledge and experience you have and applying them to the situation you are in. It's a waste of my skills to be doing 'basic nursing' if there are less qualified, or less experienced staff sitting at the desk.

 

If I'm on the ward doing 'my job' and the ward staff are busy I will empty bed pans, do personal cares for patients, take blood, administer IV drugs if they need my help.

 

If I walk down a ward and a patient calls, or a buzzer is going I answer it and do whatever needs doing. Being a nurse whatever grade you are is never losing sight of what is important - patient care

[pattricia]

I'm a clinical nurse specialist.

I am a Nurse Independant Prescriber, as such I assess, diagnose and prescribe appropriate medications for patients within my speciality.

I also run my own nurse led clinic.

 

Being a senior nurse is about using the skills, knowledge and experience you have and applying them to the situation you are in. It's a waste of my skills to be doing 'basic nursing' if there are less qualified, or less experienced staff sitting at the desk but If I'm on the ward doing 'my job' and the ward staff are busy I will empty bed pans, do personal cares for patients, take blood, administer IV drugs if they need my help.

If I walk down a ward and a patient calls, or a buzzer is going I answer it and do whatever needs doing.

 

Multi- tasking as nurses always have done.

[busybee1983]

I am not having a go at Nurses I have been married to one for over 35 years and I have worked for hospitals on services for many a year.

 

The ones today not all of them have no concept of patient care

 

and your evidence is where? people often forget the amount of tasks that Nurses are given! Nothing to do with not having any concept of patient care , more to do with the government giving them so many targets to meet and being managed often by people who have no Nurse training.

[busybee1983]

Good pay, its a safe job and they have the opportunity to pull a doctor

 

have you seen some of the doctors who work on the wards????:hihi: