spindrift Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 and....... Islam doesn't mean muslims. Sorry if you don't understand the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Islam doesn't mean muslims. Sorry if you don't understand the difference. ...yaaaawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 "Mathematics, astronomy and medicine; those are three of the many disciplines that would not exist in their present form without the contributions of Muslim scholars and thinkers throughout the centuries. We in the West don’t often remember that." —Aaron Schachter, Anchor, BBC "The World" Early Muslim advancements in science and culture laid the cornerstones of the European Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and modern Western society. The Golden Ages of Islam, beginning in A.D. 570 with the birth of Muhammad, and resonating today, introduces scholars like Ibn Al-Haytham, Ibn Sina, Al-Tusi, Al-Khwarizmi, Omar Khayyam, all towering figures who revolutionized the mathematics, astronomy, and medicine of their time and paved the way for Newton, Copernicus, and many others. Inspired leaders from Muhammad to Suleiman the Magnificent and beyond championed religious tolerance, encouraged intellectual inquiry, and sponsored artistic, architectural, and literary works that still dazzle us with their brilliance. Look here: http://www.amazon.com/Lost-History-E.../dp/1426202806 In this book, amongst many other things, you will learn about: * al-Haytham and his seminal work on optics * Omar Khayyam, and his written eloquent and insightful attacks on religious mysticism that were ahead of his time * Ibn Firnas and his designing and testing of a flying contraption * Ibn Sina's impressive list of accomplishments in medicine, including his extensive study of human anatomy, of various infectious diseases, of bone fractures, of cancers, his introduction of over 700 drugs and a rudimentary understanding of a scientific approach to clinical trials. * Al-Zahrawi's advancements in suture, antiseptics, and obstetrics * And many more, including the great mathematician al-Khwarzimi, the chemist Jabir ibn Haiyan, the physician Maimonides, the staunch Aristotelian Ibn Rushd and the prolific translator of the classical works Al-Kindi. Now, explain to me why you feel Condell is right and Islam has contributed nothing. Are you saying if they hadn't believed in the islamic religion they would have contributed nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Are you saying if they hadn't believed in the islamic religion they would have contributed nothing. Are you saying if the terrorists on September 11th weren't muslims the events wouldn't have happened? The double standards here are delicious it's explained that a tiny, tiny percentage of muslims engage in terror attacks. "It's their religion!" The Islamaphobes scream. It's pointed out that modern medicine, scientific thought, astronomy, mathematics and poetry is inspired by Islamic teachings. "It's not their religion!" The Islamaphobes scream. Ha ha ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Are you saying if the terrorists on September 11th weren't muslims the events wouldn't have happened? The double standards here are delicious it's explained that a tiny, tiny percentage of muslims engage in terror attacks. "It's their religion!" The Islamaphobes scream. It's pointed out that modern medicine, scientific thought, astronomy, mathematics and poetry is inspired by Islamic teachings. "It's not their religion!" The Islamaphobes scream. Ha ha ha ha! You are just as guilty of these double standards as the islamophobes, you just go the other way. Islamic terrorists kill people, and you scream 'Their religion had nothing to do with it' Islamic golden age occurred 1000 years ago or so , or some Muslim somewhere does something nice and you scream 'it's because of their faith'. You are being a massive hypocrite. it's pointed out that modern medicine, scientific thought, astronomy, mathematics and poetry is inspired by Islamic teachings.Also, this is way too far. These fields were not invented nor inspired by Islamic teachings, they were developed by Muslims, amongst others. Some aspects of science and maths and astronomy were developed by Muslims, and many important innovations were made during the Islamic golden period, but it is by no means the be all and end all of any of those fields and there were many other important innovations made by others. Besides, like everyone else who's ever advanced some field of human endeavor they were standing on the shoulders of giants. The reason why the Islamic states were so rich and powerful and important back then was because of aggressive imperialism and expansion, and all of their intellectual achievements owed much to the knowledge of the greeks before them, not because of their religion. In contrast, we have quotes right from the mouths of terrorists explicitly saying that they are motivated by their faith. Besides, the claim you were challenging of Pat Condells was not that Islam has contributed nothing to mathematics or science or medicine, he claimed that Islam has contributed nothing to 'justice, tolerance, and human dignity' and you have still not been able to provide an appropriate example of something that islam has contributed to those fields. You've dishonestly argued against some strawman that you have created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Mod Note Posts containing insults have been removed, please try to discuss the issue without the childish name calling and personal insults. Attack the argument and not the person making it, if you can't do that please try a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You are just as guilty of these double standards as the islamophobes, you just go the other way. Islamic terrorists kill people, and you scream 'Their religion had nothing to do with it' Islamic golden age occurred 1000 years ago or so , or some Muslim somewhere does something nice and you scream 'it's because of their faith'. You are being a massive hypocrite. Also, this is way too far. These fields were not invented nor inspired by Islamic teachings, they were developed by Muslims, amongst others. Some aspects of science and maths and astronomy were developed by Muslims, and many important innovations were made during the Islamic golden period, but it is by no means the be all and end all of any of those fields and there were many other important innovations made by others. Besides, like everyone else who's ever advanced some field of human endeavor they were standing on the shoulders of giants. The reason why the Islamic states were so rich and powerful and important back then was because of aggressive imperialism and expansion, and all of their intellectual achievements owed much to the knowledge of the greeks before them, not because of their religion. In contrast, we have quotes right from the mouths of terrorists explicitly saying that they are motivated by their faith. Besides, the claim you were challenging of Pat Condells was not that Islam has contributed nothing to mathematics or science or medicine, he claimed that Islam has contributed nothing to 'justice, tolerance, and human dignity' and you have still not been able to provide an appropriate example of something that islam has contributed to those fields. You've dishonestly argued against some strawman that you have created. 1/ I screamed nothing, I linked to university research that said occupied lands had more to do with suicide attacks than religion. I never said religion had nothing to do with it, please don't misrepresent what I said. Again. 2/ The book I linked to referred to Islamic cultural and scientific contributions. You remember, the ones you claimed didn't exist? I never made the claim these schools of study were "invented" by muslims, again that's something you've plucked out of thin air. You made a claim, I demonstrated it was wrong. 3/ As so often, you launch personal attacks against anyone who speaks up for religion, you are incapable of discussing the subject like an adult and no doubt you will resort to your old favourite allegations of sexual abuse. Calm down or debate rationally, your choice. In contrast, we have quotes right from the mouths of terrorists explicitly saying that they are motivated by their faith. . Where? Not in this thread. Not the case with the September 11th attackers, which is where the point arose. More dishonesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Besides, the claim you were challenging of Pat Condells was not that Islam has contributed nothing to mathematics or science or medicine, he claimed that Islam has contributed nothing to 'justice, tolerance, and human dignity' and you have still not been able to provide an appropriate example of something that islam has contributed to those fields. . Justice and Tolerance: ISLAMIC LAW & JURISPRUDENCE The Dignity of Man: An Islamic Perspective MOHAMMAD HASHIM KAMALI The Dignity of Man: An Islamic Perspective provides the most detailed study to date on the subject of the dignity of man in Islam. This book goes a long way towards exploring an alternative to Western concepts of human rights. The Dignity of Man: An Islamic Perspective is part of a series of studies on fundamental rights and liberties in Islam. Freedom, Equality and Justice in Islam MOHAMMAD HASHIM KAMALI In Freedom, Equality and Justice in Islam, M H Kamali presents the reader with an analysis of the three concepts of freedom, equality and justice from an Islamic point of view and their manifestations in the religious, social, legal and political fields. Companion volume to The Dignity of Man and Freedom of Expression in Islam. Freedom of Expression in Islam MOHAMMAD HASHIM KAMALI In recent years the subject of freedom of expression has become a topic of heated debate. Freedom of Expression in Islam offers the first and only detailed presentation in English of freedom of expression from both the legal and moral perspectives of Islam. Companion volume to The Dignity of Man and Freedom, Equality and Justice in Islam. The Right to Life, Security, Privacy and Ownership in Islam Mohammad H Kamali A person’s right to life, personal security, privacy, and ownership are the most basic of all the fundamental rights and liberties and are of concern to all legal systems and traditions. To address them side by side with one another, as is attempted in the present volume, is reflective of their natural priority and significance. These rights are simultaneously the most vulnerable to aggression and abuse. Islamic Commercial Law: An Analysis of Futures and Options MOHAMMAD HASHIM KAMALI Futures and options are a completely new phenomenon which has no parallel in Islamic commercial law. This work focuses on options and futures as trading tools and explores their validity from an Islamic point of view. Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence MOHAMMAD HASHIM KAMALI This third edition of the best-selling title Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence has been completely revised and substantially enlarged. In this work, Prof Kamali offers us the first detailed presentation available in English of the theory of Muslim law (usul al-fiqh). Written as a university textbook, Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence is an essential reference work not only for students of Islamic law, but also for anyone with an interest in Muslim society or in issues of comparative jurisprudence. Language and the Interpretation of Islamic Law Sukrija Husejn Ramic One of the most important branches of principles of Islamic jurisprudence (usul al-fiqh) is the study of the usage of language. Language and the Interpretation of Islamic Law is the first work to appear in English dealing with this important aspect of Islamic law. Al-Shafi'i’s Risala Treatise on the Foundations of Islamic Jurisprudence Translated by: MAJID KHADDURI Written in the second Islamic century by al-Imam al-Shafi'i (d. 204AH/ 820AD), the founder of one of the four Sunni schools of law, this important work gives the fundamental principles of Islamic jurisprudence, and its influence continues to the present day. On Schacht’s Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence MUHAMMAD M. AL-AZAMI This in-depth study presents a detailed analysis and critique of the classic Western work on the origins of Islamic law, Schacht’s Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence. Azami’s work examines the sources used by Schacht and exposes fundamental flaws in Schacht’s methodology. This book is an important contribution to Islamic legal studies from an Islamic perspective. Equity and Fairness in Islam MOHAMMAD H KAMALI First work in the English language to deal specifically with the subjects of equity and fairness in Islamic law. Origins, nature and different legal perspectives on the concept of istihsan, followed by definition and examples of its applications, including issues related to Islamic banking, sale transactions, charitable endowments, pensions funds and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spindrift Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Human Dignity, not particularly easy to quantify, I'd suggest artistic and exploratory endeavours qualify: "The mission of mankind was accomplished by Muslims", writes George Sarton, The greatest philosopher, Al-Farabi was a Muslim the greatest mathematicians, Abul Kamil and Ibrahim Ibn Sina were Muslims; the greatest geographer and encyclopaedist, al-Musudi was a Muslim; the greatest historian, Al-Tabari was still a Muslim". The influence of the Muslims could be traced in almost all spheres of life in the Mediaeval West including sciences and arts, commerce and industry, music and painting. The brightest luminaries of the Mediaeval times were Jabir, Kindi, Jahiz and Baytar in sciences; Zakariya Razi, Ibn Sinaand Zahrawi in medical science; Khwarizmi, Omar Khayyam, Abul Wafa and Nasiruddin Toosi in mathematics and astrbnomy; Farabi, Ibn Sina, Ghazali, Ibn Rushd, Ibn Arabi and Fakhruddin Razi in philosophy; Tabari, Ibn Miskawayh, Ibn Athir and Ibn Khaldun in history; Masudi, Idrisi and Ibn Hauqal in geography; Farabi, Zalzal, Ziryab and Ibrahim Mausili in music; Behzad, Maani and Raza Abbasi in painting. They have left behind on the pages of history the imprint of their genius in the respective branches of their activity. As already stated in detail in previous chapters a number of their works served as standard text books both in the West as well in the East till the beginning of the 18th century A.D. The Arabs were the real originators of sciences in the world. Discarding the speculative method of the Greeks, they based their scientific research on observation and experiment.which gave birth to experimental method. This experimental method introduced by the Arabs was in fact, responsible for rapid advancement of science during the mediaeval times. Jabir, the father of modern chemistry was the greatest chemical scientist of the mediaeval times whose writings influenced the course of Europeam alchemy and chemistry. The Kilab Al-Haywan written by Jahiz is an invaluable book on zoology containing germs of, later theories on evolution, adoptation and animal psychology. Ibn al-Baytar is universally acknowledged as the most eminent botanist of Mediaeval times. According to the Historians' History, it was from Ibn al-Haitham's Twilight that the illustrious Kepler took his ideas of atmospheric refraction and "it may be that Newton himself owes to the Arabs, rather than to the apple in his orchard at Woolsthorpe the first apperception of the system of the universe, for Muhammad Ben Musa seems, when writing his books on the movements of the celestial bodies and on the Force of Attraction, to have had an inkling of the great law of general harmony." In medical science Al-Razi's AI-Hawi (Continens) in 20 volumes and Al-JudariwalHasbah (a book dealing with small-pox) which ran into more than fifty editions during 1498--1866; Ibn Sina's (Avicenna's) AI-IZanunFi Tibb (Canon) published 36 times and surgeon Zahrawi's al-Tasrif were recognised as the highest authority on medicine during the mediaeval era. Avicenna's influence on European medicine has been overwhelming. In mathematics and astronomy, the works on algebra written by Khwarizmi and Omar Khayyam, books on geometry and trigonometryleft behind by Abul Wafa, Nasiruddin Toosi and the treatises on astronomy by Khwarizmi, Omar Khayyam, Al-Beruni and Nasiruddin Toosi are the most outstanding contributions to these sciences during the middle ages. The translation of Khwariumi's algebra marked the beginning of European algebra. The introduction of zero to arithmetic by the Arabs was a highly beneficial step towards the simplification of arithmetic. The Muslims had specialised in historiography and political science which were their favourite subjects. Tabari, the father of Arabian historiography is considered as one of the greatest historians of the mediaeval era, who has influenced the art of writing history both in the East and the West. Ibn Khaldun, the founder of the science of sociology has the unique distinction of treating history as a science by supporting his facts with reasoning. More than any historian, Ibn Khaldun has influenced the modern thought in historiography, politics, sociologl and political economy. Among the eminent travellers, explorers and navigators who brought the distant parts of-Mediaeval world closer through their discoveries and writings are Ibn Batuta, Masudi, Beruni, Ibn Hauqal, Moqaddasi, Sulaiman Al-Mahiri and Ibn Majid, They also paved the way for the growth of Arabian commerce which was carried on with distant parts of the known world both through land and sea routes. The products of the highly developed industries in Muslim countries found good market throughout the world. In fine arts and music too, Muslim artists influenced their European counterparts and the musicians Farabi, Ishaq Mausili, Zalzal and Ziryab; the paihters Maani and Behzad were the greatest figures of their time in the respective spheres of theirarts. Muslims had developed a distinctive style of their own in architecture and built some of the most magnificent and beautiful buildings in the world including Alhambra, the Grand Mosque of Cordova in Spain, mosque of Ibn Tulun in Cairo, the grand mosque of Isfahan and the Taj Mahal of Agra. These are even now recognised as the architectural wonders of the world. Thus the Muslims kept aloft the candle of civilization during the Mediaeval era and their contributions to the advancement of human progress provided the necessary link between the ancient and modern civilizations. The Islamic universities of Nizamiyah and Mustansariya at Baghdad, the Al-Azhar of Cairo, and the universities of Cordova and Salerno diffused knowledge to students composed of all communities who flocked to these seats of learning from distant parts of the world including Europe. The four factors The four factors, which are generally recognised by European Historians as the basis of Western Renaissance are (1) The recovery of Greek Classics, (2) The diminution of ecclesiastical authority, (3) The discovery of the New World and (4) The introduction of the Printing Press. But curiously enough these factors are more or less resulted from the impact of Islamic culture with the west. The Islamic influence may easily be trace in the birth and growth of these factors which are said to have brought about the renaissance in Europe. As regards the Greek Classics, it is universally admitted both in the East and the West that it were the Arabs who patronised and saved them from total extinction. Hence the Greek classics existed in Arabic version only, which were later translated by the Christian scholars into European languages The Historians History admits, "They (Arabs) merit eternal gratitude for having been the preserver of the learning of Greeks and Hindus when those people were no longer preducing anything and Europe was still too ignorant to undertake the charge of the precious Depot. Efface the Arabs from history and the Renaissance of letters will be retarded in Europe by several centuries''. Writing in the History of Medicine in the Middle Ages, Max Kahn observes, "The tolerance of Arabs was the saving grace of civilization. They relit the lamp of learning which had been extinguished in Europe, and the light of Hippocrates, Aristotle and Galen illuminated the mosques and cloisters of infidels". According to Dr. F. J. C. Hearnshaw, writer of the Chapter on "European Life and Manners" in Vol. 6 of the Universal History of the World, "Christian students repaired to Islamic schools to learn the wisdom of the ancients and to' gain the secrets of those arts and crafts which made Muhammedan Spain famous throughout the world.. It was by way of Spain that the long lost works of Aristotle reached Western Christendom, to revolutionise scholastic Philosophy and Theology." According to Stanley Lane-Poole "What mediaeval Europe knew of Greek Philosophy, Mathematics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Medicine was learned principally through Latin translations. from Arabic treatises which held their places in the schools of Europe down to the sixteenth and even well into the seventeenth century." (Chapter on "Golden Age of Arab Culture" in Vol. IV. of the Universal History of the World). The second factor namely the diminution of religious authority in the Christian authority was caused by Reformation and Crusades. Martin Luther, who was the founder of Reformation was so much influenced by Islamic culture that he was accused of being a Muhammadan by the orthodox Christians. The Crusaders, bailing from different parts of Christian Europe came in direct contact with Muslims in the Holy Land and were deeply influenced by the Islamic culture. On return they introduced those reforms to their life which greatly weakened the hold of the Church on the common Christian. Dr. B. W. Stevenson says in the Chapter on "The Spirit and Influence of the Crusades" in Volume 3 of The Universal History of the World (7 Vols., London, 1928) : "The learning and art and science of the East, its public services and methods of government, its highly developed industries and the superior luxury and comfort of the domestic life of its upper classes, exerted a powerful and far-reaching influence upon Europe in the Crusading period. Another historian of the Crusades, Dr. Henry Elmer Barnes, says in Vol. I. of his History of Western Civilisation "The Westerners learned many Muslim and Oriental ways and developed a taste for the luxuries of the region. All this promoted a demand for Eastern goods and accelerated the growth of commerce. The Italians, who had acted as transporting agents for the Crusaders, took full advantage of their opportunities to build up trading relations with the East. Travel was promoted, and the explorations of Marco Polo and others followed on the heels of the Crusaders. This still further encouraged trade between Europe and the Orient. The revived trade promoted the rise of towns and a more progressive element in European life. The science and culture of the Muslims were brought back to Europe and helped to create the remarkable intellectual revival of the twelfth and thirteenth centuries" The third factor namely the discovery of America was actually the outcome of Arab efforts. The latest researches carried on by Dr. Jeffrey, the celebrated anthropologist of South Africa has proved that Arabs discovered America five centuries ahead of C. Columbus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 This is fast becoming a comedy sketch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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