The idiocy of conspiracy theorists

[MAC33]

Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling

 

 

 

Quote,

 

the majority of students are put through the same brainwashing techniques in order to create a complacent labor force, working in the interests of large corporations and secretive government and worst of all they are completely unaware of it.

 

 

we will not accept anything at face value, we will ask questions and and we will demand answers and truth

[Longcol]

The now mostly pejorative term "conspiracy theory" has become so laden with presumption that people often lose sight of the historic, systemic role of conspiracies in influencing our world.

 

While it is true that the more elaborate end of the conspiracy theory spectrum is partly to blame for tarnishing the notion that conspiracies do in fact occur, as evidenced through declassified documents and ongoing institutional analysis, people are often quick to discredit any criticism that merely questions the official version of events spoon fed to us by government and mainstream media sources with known self serving agendas.

 

As I said before, if you mentioned exposed conspiratorial programs such as COINTELPRO to the "man on the street", you would most likely get lumped in the same category as someone who believes absolutely that 9/11 was an inside job. Either that, or it would be presumed you must also believe that lizards rule the world.

 

 

Wasn't COINTELPRO info published by the mainstream media though?

 

Quality mainstream media will publish verifiable sources - which is why we have seen exposures such as Watergate, WMD etc.

 

AFAIK nothing remotely verifiable exists for 9/11 - despite the thousands who must have been in on the "conspiracy" for it to happen.

[epiphany]

Wasn't COINTELPRO info published by the mainstream media though?

 

Many mainstream sources refused to publish the information (as expected), but the initial exposure was not by the media or through investigative journalism. It was exposed by what many people would consider "paranoid left wing conspiracy theorists".

 

AFAIK nothing remotely verifiable exists for 9/11 - despite the thousands who must have been in on the "conspiracy" for it to happen.

 

I wasn't saying there was. My point was that the people who blindly accept the MSM and government's "official" story are just as presumptuous as the conspiracy theorist who treats it as conspiracy fact.

[Conrod]

There's one thing that the conspiracy theorists just don't get.

 

Forget all their so-called evidence; forget the gaps in official explanations, quirks of nature and other minutiae that they bloat into being massive issues.

 

The simplest, and most important, thing they completely fail to understand is that you simply cannot do something deceptive and morally repugnant at government level, with hundreds or thousands of people aware and contributing, without the whistle being blown.

 

Believe it or not, the vast majority of people who work in the security services, military and civil service are honest and would not support a gruesome conspiracy by the government.

[epiphany]

The simplest, and most important, thing they completely fail to understand is that you simply cannot do something deceptive and morally repugnant at government level, with hundreds or thousands of people aware and contributing, without the whistle being blown.

 

Believe it or not, the vast majority of people who work in the security services, military and civil service are honest and would not support a gruesome conspiracy by the government.

 

I agree with your second statement, but is that the only definition of conspiracy? Where hundreds or thousands of people are involved? Or are you specifically talking about events like 9/11 and large scale orchestrations?

[Wildcat]

There's one thing that the conspiracy theorists just don't get.

 

Forget all their so-called evidence; forget the gaps in official explanations, quirks of nature and other minutiae that they bloat into being massive issues.

 

The simplest, and most important, thing they completely fail to understand is that you simply cannot do something deceptive and morally repugnant at government level, with hundreds or thousands of people aware and contributing, without the whistle being blown.

 

Believe it or not, the vast majority of people who work in the security services, military and civil service are honest and would not support a gruesome conspiracy by the government.

 

What strikes me as most odd is that probably the largest conspiracy theory, that Climatologists are all involved in a plot along with every Government in the world to foist green taxes on car drivers (by means of the 'climate change hoax').... has some respectability in the mainstream press (especially the Telegraph).

 

The science is as clear, if not clearer than it is on evolution, there are numerous arguments and evidential data all leading to the same conclusion that man made CO2 emissions are causing global warming that could have catastrophic consequences and yet Roy Spencer, Monckton, Lawson etc all gain favourable coverage in the media despite there being no scientific substance to anything they say and no evidence of any plots or conspiracy to silence an educated alternative viewpoint by an international establishment that is global.

 

This article gives a good description of the reasons the Lawson's, Monckton's and Delingpole's promote their anti-science conspiracy theories.... a free market anarchist ideological fear of strong Government.... ironically something their own actions will make more inevitable the longer the issue is ignored.

 

http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/01/krauthammer-part-2-the-real-reason-conservatives-dont-believe-in-climate-science/

[Conrod]

I've not read in depth, but my impression is that on the climate matter, there is a divided scientific community. Many regard the science to be imprecise, many different views abound, and people disagree. That the governments choose to look at 'worst case', and people say they're taking advantage of green taxation isn't quite in the same league of conspiracy as supposedly deliberatley murdering thousands of innocent citizens.

[flamingjimmy]

I've not read in depth, but my impression is that on the climate matter, there is a divided scientific community.

 

That's just not the case though.

 

This was rather wildcats point, the climate science denial movement is given respect in certain sections of the media and given a completely unwarranted veneer of respectability which can mislead people like you, as they have.

[Tony]

The thing about climate change scepticism is that;

 

A. The best that can happen is that we spend money, develop knowledge, technology and adapt society to save the planet and make it a better place to live.

 

or

 

B. The worst that can happen is that we spend money, develop knowledge, technology and adapt society trying to save the planet and make it a better place to live.

 

Heads you win, tails you win.

[Wildcat]

That's just not the case though.

 

This was rather wildcats point, the climate science denial movement is given respect in certain sections of the media and given a completely unwarranted veneer of respectability which can mislead people like you, as they have.

 

Indeed, to develop the point slighty.

 

At least 97% of Climate Experts believe in human caused climate change. Whilst 5% of Scientists believe in Young Earth Creationism.

 

Also every scientific establishment with any credibility supports the consensus opinion.

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution#Creationist_disputes_over_the_scientific_support_for_evolution

 

And yet you look at public opinion through surveys, on just browse around the internet (I was just looking at one on Conservative Home) and you will see people like Monckton being defended and treated as if he has any credibility. You will see people in a palavar, over the CRU emails that climate scientists behave like human beings in private, using some intemperate language, say the occassional thing that looks dodgy, but on investigation completely innocent and out of context. Contrast that with the well documented lies Monckton has come out with... from rubbish about Malaria, to denying calling some climate activists "hitler youth", to all the rubbish he writes about global warming including that it is all a Communist plot. Something DelingPole and Brooker in the Telegraph lap up and regurgitate despite the apparent ridiculousness of what is being said and the lack of any credibility he has.

 

I have just noticed Tom Chivers critical post of Delingpole has reappeared on their website after they censored it. It hasn't stopped Delingpole he is still going on about Eco-Nazis.

 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100007072/fao-james-delingpole-climate-change-and-other-myths/

 

I hope the reinstatement of Chivers article is an indication of a more responsible approach to reporting, but I am not holding my breath.

 

Conrod said "That the governments choose to look at 'worst case', and people say they're taking advantage of green taxation isn't quite in the same league of conspiracy as supposedly deliberatley murdering thousands of innocent citizens." Let's put in context what this anti-science campaign is doing... it is delaying the inevitable realisation that we have to do something to preserve the planet and delaying Governments from actively getting together to push for a united approach to more sustainable energy use and emissions. It is inevitable it will happen, the consequences of not doing so is much greater costs, much stricter controls and organisation required to police it.

 

It also isn't about supposedly murdering "thousands of innocent civilians" 350,000 die through climate change a year already, rising to around a million a year by 2030, if no action is taken.

 

http://daraint.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/CVM_Executive-Summary.pdf

 

http://daraint.org/climate-vulnerability-monitor/climate-vulnerability-monitor-2010/